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Subject: TML Bundle #250: Msgs 3067
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Date: Wed Nov  6 21:00:24 PST 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #250: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
3068  03-Nov-91 Richard Johnson   PBEM Turn 91.01b << PBEM Turn 91.01b (697 lin

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3068
Subject: PBEM Turn 91.01b
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 91 17:15:28 PST
From: Richard Johnson <richard@agora.rain.COM>


PBEM Turn 91.01b  (697 lines, 28 483 characters)
=================================================================
This is PART 2 of 5.  It covers the secind half hour or so.

***** current position of ships, etc. ****
Definitely NOT to scale  :=)  

(Top View)  Ring and Alcyon orbiting CCW as seen from here.

    W = Westwind, ~4 AU from Alcyon, 35 minutes each way for signals
   GA = Gemini Arbiter ~3 AU from Alcyon, 25 min. each way
    B = Bernoulli and Aurora, 10 minutes one way signal to Alcyon
    S = Shuttle, 5 min. one way
    T = Trakh, 5 min. now aloft, and intercepting

All the rest within a few seconds for round-trip signals
    P = Paladin, taking a couter-rotation sweep for faster mapping?
    K = Kingfisher ~ 5 minutes to Alcyon
   Al = Alcyon
   Ta = Talisman







                W

                             GA                      __-----__
                                                    /         \
                                                   /           \
                                                  /             \
                                                  |             |
                                                  |             |
                                                 |               |
                                               P |       *       |
                                                 |               |
                                                 |              |
                                         Al   K  |              |
                                                  \S            /
                                                   \  T        /
                                                 Ta \--_____--/

                                                      Au
                                                        B




===============================================================

 
- ----------------- 
Paladin
- -----------------
Goughzar turns to watch Charyn as she talks into the transmitter and
listens to Dr. Morser as he speaks about the ship. Finally shaking his
head, he turns on keys the computer.

"PALADIN, do a full scan of all ships in the vicinity, active EMS on all
within range, and continue detailed scan of ringworld."

Zar gets up and stretches a bit and looks over to Charyn at the comm console
and Dr. Morser standing in the doorway. "Grrrr, it looks like we follow dear
Vouf's orders... I've always wanted to see a little more..."

As the shiver of emotion from the approaching ship comes through the Paladin
Zar crouches a little and growls a little.

"I hope this doesn't continue forever with these people. I don't think I like
this psionics flowing so freely. Doktor, if you would like, I can copy the
scans from the distress signals and the ringworld in the equipment you and
Limner undoubtable brought aboard and fiddled with earlier. Perhaps you can
define some details I can't.

PALADIN, copy all detailed scans of ships into Aurora with maximum enhancement
and resolution."

Zar paces back and forth in the ship for a bit, but finally settles down into
the pilot's seat and goes back to piloting the ship and periodically making
enhancements of the scans.

"Charyn, perhaps you can help me with these scans. The ship didn't start with
me as the owner, so I'm still working on these sensor capabilities that the
ship has built in." Zar brings up various scans and details and starts rambling
into Sensor operations with Charyn.


- ------------------------
Kingfisher
- ------------------------
On the bridge of the command shuttle, Jett walks over to the communications
station in thoughtful contemplation. Withdrawing his portable computer from
its protective belt-sheath, he turns it on and punches up a powerful
database-search program and with an air of determination wends his way
through the welter of 2-D images and text that speed past on his screen.

After about five minutes of coolly efficient research, he pauses to review
the result. He doublechecks it, then clicks the 'puter off and returns it
to the sheath. He turns to Zben (or whomever has half a second free). "A
tight-beam commo link to SubCommander Bhyarrvouf on the Aurora and a
parallel datalink channel, Mister Blaine, if you please."

When the communication link is established, Judge Richard Jett lays
out his plan. "SubCommander, Almighty Sahib Jett here. (The irony in
his voice is palpable.) I concur in your proposed solution to the problem
of the rogue scouts and Commander Ger is of a similar mind. Let me
detail the plan that I have researched and developed."

"SubCommander, unless those people are hopeless incompetents (and I have
my . . . DOUBTS . . . about the Gemini Arbiter's . . . crew), then it
is imperative that they be put under contract ASAP. The modified contract
and verification forms are enroute to you." His Honor takes a data crystal
from an inside pocket and puts it in the designated receptacle on the commo
console. "Please point out to them Article IV, in which they agree to
indemnify Turnskaad Corporation for any assistance provided to them in the
event of their breach of contract or misfeasance. In other words, unless
they play ball, not only won't they see a credit, but Turnskaad will ...
POLITELY .. seek payment for services rendered -- even if they don't sign
the contract. And Turnskaad always collects."

"If they are not enthusiastic about signing aboard this expedition, I hope
you will point out to them that without our help, not only is their chance
of escape about as likely as getting JJ Horne to stop chomping on stogies,
but also that they run the risk of getting reduced to subatomic particles
if a certain Imperial fleet makes a return visit."

"If THAT isn't enough, you can assure them that I will personally see to
it that their certification papers are suspended pending inquiry on
suspicion of barratry and that the IISS puts their ships in custodial
impound. That's for starters. In short, SubCommander, be gentle with
them." Richard smiles, happy in the thought that Turnskaad will be
getting some (hopefully) quality labor on the cheap -- the new hires
hadn't suffered through the last tumultuous two weeks, so naturally
their wages and salvage cut were substantially less than in the standard
contracts.

"One more thing, SubCommander. Commander Ger and I agree that while you
should induct the crews of the three ships, under no circumstances are
they to board one of our ships or land on R-Alpha without a full sweep
by Security personnel. Remind them that as employees of Turnskaad, they
are under the authority of Commander Ger and the Command Team. Please
keep us posted. Jett out."


- ------------
Aurora
- ------------
Bhyarrvouf's answer is delayed and muffled by static.

"Wilco that, Your Honor. Moira reports successful download of the data.
Just for your and Commander Nanadh's <he emphasizes the proper use of
Ger's last name slightly> information, the Bernoulli may well be a lost
cause. One dead, one in really bad shape in the med-berth. The ship won't
blow up any time soon, unless there's another bomb aboard, but she's
too unstable to move much further. I'm going to offload the crew's effects
and dump the data from her survey computers, which may be worth its weight
in monadium. I'm then going to initiate a full shutdown, and leave her on
a long cometary orbit with known parameters so we can come back for her 
later. Basically put her in, whatchamacallem, bothmalls."

    On standard frequency 121.5:

    (female voice: very professional sounding)
    This is Aurelia Xerxes of the Gemini Arbiter. My sister
    Nicole and I are the only personnel aboard. We are employees
    of the Spinward Diplomatic Services Corporation, based on
    Mora in the Spinward Marches.

Halfway to the suit locker, Bhyarrvouf stops in his tracks. His ears
fold back flat. When Christian shoots him a questioning look, he makes
an almost imperceptible motion with one finger, and the PA broadcasts
the message.

"We're DEFINITELY in a trap," Bhyarrvouf mutters after it's over. "They're
trying to STRESS us to death!"

*click* "All fleet craft, this is Aurora. MAINTAIN RENDEZVOUS COURSE! It
is OBVIOUS at this point that we've been set up, and the indigenous 
populace of R-Alpha are our best chance for survival. Make the rendezvous
and get onto the surface ASAP, and we'll handle our THIRD miraculous
coincidence of the afternoon after the first two. Aurora out."

After he switches off, Bhyarrvouf snarls, "This STINKS. BADLY!"

    I am Chief Consul Historical Perspectives and Social
    Analysis. My sister is Chief Consul Interspecies Linguistic
    Interpretation and Analysis.	

Christian's blank expression shows utter disbelief
which quickly melts into wariness and irritated exasperation. "Aenrra,
back in the long lost past of Terra, a criminal mastermind named
Auric Goldfinger had a saying -- "Once is happenstance, twice is
coincidence, and the third time is enemy action." He pounds his fist
against the bulkhead. "Even if it's NOT a trap, I'm getting damned
tired at suddenly having to be every idiot's salvation. Helping is
one thing, but must I suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous
fortune ALL THE TIME??"

*click* "Alcyon, this is Aurora. Have an emergency evacuation plan set up
until further notice; rig the pinnace to carry the cold-sleep berths for
those who might still be salvageable, and be ready to make a run for the
ring. We've had WAY too many coincidences for us to be sitting unprepared.
Bhyarrvouf out."

*click* "Gemini Arbiter, this is ISS Aurora. If you are able to maintain
life support, hang on--we'll rendezvous with you sometime before 1124. If
you're in real trouble, call us back and we'll hustle as best we can. If
you're NOT in real trouble, you will be by the time I'm through with you.
Aurora out."

He begins suiting up, muttering to himself in Vuakedh.....

"Amen, brother.." Christian stands by, his fingers tapping a rhythm on
the bulkhead, matching 'Vouf swear for swear.


    Our situation is much improved. We have regained life
    support and all systems seem to be operating normally.
    (voice in backround: our ship is a mess though!) 

    Our (in an annoyed pitched voice, which sounds directed
    at someone) inner airlock was undergoing routine maintenance when
    the outer door was struck. Since our safety system was disabled
    explosive decompression occured causing numerous problems.

    Other than internal cosmetic damages we are able to
    proceed normally. (voice in background: as long as someone tells
    us where we are!)

    We are in a standard courier/scout class starship several
    au's above/below the plane of the ecliptic.

    Since there are several ships in distress we should able
    to lend assistance if needed.


The heads of Christian and 'Vouf both snap up simultaneously and
as their eyes meet there is almost no need for words. Christian
wins the race to the communicator. Opening a tight-beam channel to
the Arbiter, Christian gives full rein to his pent up exasperation and
the steel of command in his voice is unmistakeable.

"NEGATIVE, Gemini Arbiter. ISS Aurora will conduct all rescue
 operations; this is an authorized Turnskaad expedition and you
 WILL stay clear of our operations until you have been verified
 and authorized by Command personnel. I don't care if you are
 Empress Arbellatra; frankly I don't give a damn. Stay where you
 are and we will get to you. Acknowledge and comply, Gemini
 Arbiter. Christian Van Der Merwe, ISS Aurora, OUT."

    (Nicole breaks in:)
    Our outer airlock door is damaged beyond its ability to 
    hold pressure. A standard overcoupling connection should render
    it usable until we are able to get it repaired.

    (Aurelia speaks:)
    This is Gemini Arbiter. Out.





- ---------------
Kingfisher
- ---------------
At the commo panel in the command shuttle, Zben Blaine suddenly
starts getting inundated with emergency broadcasts, responses, banter,
and some communications that sounds so disjointed he believes it may
be in code! As he is alerting Commander Ger he sets up his panel to
record and track each seperate ship's communications, then establishes
a distance, vector, and speed for each ship and puts this info up on
the main display (unless ordered otherwise). In addition he `tightens
up' the highspeed computer link with the Alcyon, so that he can do 2
point trianglulation as needed.

 "Commander! Blaine here. We seem to have a distress signal..."
(slight pause...) "... make that TWO distress calls coming in! I am
tracking these vessels as well as our ships. Recordings are being made
of all conversations and data. Awaiting your orders, sir!"

Turning to the helmsman "Well, so much for the `boldly goes where
no one has gone before' prize."


<Ger>
Blaine, please contact this new ship. 

Farouk, remind me never to travel in a type S scout again..

Gemini Arbiter, This is Admiral Ger of the Darrian Confederation,
Currently in the employ of Turnskaad Corp. You are located in
the Coreward edge of Reaver's Deep sector. Where was you last
location? What are your intentions now that you have arrived at this
location? You are advised that this is a military operation, and that 
you should check with this command centre before performing any 
operations near the Ringworld. We are prepared to offer you any 
reasonable assistance that will not interfere with our mission.


There is a low warning tone, and the tactical display begins to shift.

"Commander, there is a second ship rising from R-alpha."  Farouk's voice 
is low and precise.  

A yellow velocity vector is rapidly filled in, stretching from a grey 
icon indicating "indeterminate, medium size".  A quick tap brings up a 
mostly-empty data box.

"Point of origin ring surface, 10.29 degrees spinward. Heading 
declination 79 degrees, inclination 4 degrees, speed 63.4 km/s and 
accelerating.  Will intercept us in 35 minutes if we maintain current 
course."

<Ger>
"Farouk, can you identify the class or nationality of the vessel?"


The display has shifted again, replacing the grey icon with an orange 
one.

<Blaine>
"Commander, the ship is tentatively identified as Aslan."


<Ger>
"Will the Aslan ship reach us before or after the Shuttle from 
the Ringworld?"


<Witfield>
"After.  We have eleven minutes to shuttle contact and 2.4 hours to
Aslan contact."


"Aslan ship? Oh great. As if we don't have enough trouble
already. What are your orders, commander? Should we hail them?
They are on intercept, I'm sure they've seen us by now..."


"Mr. Witfield. Try and see if you can contact them. Actually try to
contact the other shuttle as well."


Zben notes the new ship rising from R-alpha, and puts its track
up on the main display as well. When the tentative ID of Aslan comes
through he addresses the Captain:

<Blaine>
"Sir, I was involved with trade delegations to the Aslan, and
can get by OK in basic K`dessha (their `trade' language), and can
understand a bit of T`essh (their `warrior tongue'). I can attempt to
communicate with them if you like, unless the Captain prefers to have
a `private' fall back to computer translation."

He studies the path of the ship, and does a couple of quick EMS
sweeps of it flightpath.

"I also detect atmospheric beam scatter that could indicate
either a laser or maser communications beam was established between the
ship and some point on the surface of R-alpha near its point of
departure."


<Ger>
"Mr. Blaine. I am fluent in Aslan, I had an Aslan Bodyguard for many
years, unless this is some strange dialect we shouldn't have any problems.
Can you pinpoint the location on the surface? And where is it in
relation to the point where the shuttle took off from? Are you on
duty currently or is Mr. Whitfield?"


<Blaine>
"Both, sir.  I'm handling commo, and Witfield sensors, with some overlap."

<Ger>
"Good.  Raise the Talisman."




- ----------------------------
Talisman
- ----------------------------
Thul upon hearing the exchange on the distress channel mutters a 
few profane syllables to himself and yells "Let's get this ship to GQ status
NOW!!"   Plunking down to a gunnery console, he brings the fire control 
system out of standby and performs the preliminary stuff to getting a fire
control solution on the distressed vessel.

Using his perogative as ship owner, Thul radios 'Vouf...  "I hear what you
said about staying in formation Subcommander, but if you change your mind 
about it I can have some extra guns over to you real quick!!  Standing by.."

"Don't worry, Thul. If I need help, you'll hear me screaming and you WON'T
need a radio." 'Vouf chuckles and breaks contact.
 
"Niigurd responding to GQ. What the hell is my station on board for
anything beyond contact situation? Medical?"
 
Do ya' know how to man a turret?   If not, sickbay is the next best place...

J.J. quickly spits out his cheroot, muttering that, "At this rate I am
going to run short and have nothing to smoke. Can't we just once have
a milk run, just once!" With that he buttons up his Vacc Suit, and
clicks his comdot. "Thul, J.J. hear all buttoned up and standing by
for boarding if needed.", the rest present hear the distinctive sound
of the bolt of an SMG being pulled back.

"Hey Horne, I hoped you're hooked up to ships power with that suit o'yours,
cause you can figure on sitting in it for about six hours before we can
get within boarding range, assuming we headed out right now.  Relax a bit,
you must not be used to these distances out here.  Besides," Andon says
glancing sidways at Thule, "with this tub it might even take us 12 hours
to get over there."

"Niigurd here. Negative on turret weapons. Reporting to medbay (it is
going to be rather crowded there."


- ------------
Aurora
- ------------
"THREE ships to deal with," Bhyarrvouf growls as he finishes suiting up.
"This is beyond ridiculous. This is SUICIDAL! --"

*click*

This is Gemini Arbiter.

(female voice slightly appologetic) It isn't our fault
our ship missed jumped! How are we to know what's happening! It's
not as if we haven't got problems of our own, too! We were just
trying to be helpful to those others in need!

(female voice changes to slightly whiny)
Oh, all right! We will stay right here until someone...

(voice in background: if they make up their minds whose
in charge!) ... decides we're safe.

	Gemini Arbiter. Out.


'Vouf looks like he's going to have a stroke. The inner linings of his
ears color a deep reddish purple, and his mouth works furiously but
nothing comes out. His hands clench and unclench feebly for a minute
or two. He raises a hand, opens his mouth--

*click*

 "Hello again everyone.
This is ISS Westwind.  I'm sorry if there's been some sort of
misunderstanding.  We are not... repeat, not... in distress.
We were just requesting some navigational info.  Our damage is
fairly superficial -- we don't need rescuing, thanks all the same.

"Hello Gemini Arbiter.  Glad to know you're coping all right,
Nikki.  Give a shout if you need any help, otherwise we're heading
in-system.  Maybe I'll see you later.

- --and closes his mouth and lowers his hand, staring at Christian helplessly.


As he waits for 'Vouf to complete his preparations, Christian irritatedly
opens a comm channel for what seems like the thousandth time. "Westwind,
this is Aurora. Suggest you do not approach in-system until approved by
command personnel. This is for your own safety. Current situation fluid
and hazardous to non-Turnskaad personnel. Acknowledge, Westwind. Van Der
Merwe, out." Christian turns to 'Vouf with an expression of exasperated
resignation. "Aenrra, we have two loose-cannon ships out there -- have
any ideas about what we do with them?"


'Vouf stares at Christian for a few seconds, as if not understanding the
question. He then does something quite remarkable-- he reaches over his 
shoulders with both gauntleted hands, grabs his uniform by the scruff
of the neck, and tries to bodily lift himself off the ground!

This exercise continues for a few short moments, 'Vouf panting with the
strain, then ends as he relaxes and lets go of himself. "Stress relief,"
he explains with a smile. "Poppa always used to scruff me an' my brothers
when we got into fights...."


- ----------------
Talisman
- ----------------
"Aghh!"  Ralf winced as the signal traffic expanded by several
orders of magnitude.  Three ships that "just happened" to be in the same
chunk of space as the Turnskaad expedition and a tech level 25
macrostructure?  Ralf focused in on the newcomers and started going through
incoming data with a proverbial fine-toothed comb.  "Computer, check the
Library for files on the Bernoulli, Westwind, and Gemini Arbiter for owner
information, run voice print comparisons.  Compare transponder signals."  On
the off chance that an enemy was foolish enough to fake the ship and use the
wrong voice prints.  Which brought up a whole 'nother question.
"Meanwhile..." 

The Alcyon's computers had been compromised - hell, the whole damn
ship had been compromised - by that insidiously programmed robot.  Ralf
spared a brief curse for the idiots who'd blown the thing up when they could
have taken it out `softly' and let the experts take it apart for information
on what else it had done.  Could they be certain these ships were really
there, not simply computer-phantoms slipped into the system?

One way.  Ralf knifed through the Talisman's datasphere and seized
control of the appropriate sensors, shutting down links, sequestering them
from the main avionics.  Now he could scan the targets directly, as directly
as possible short of taking a spacewalk and seeing with his own eyes.  No,
no doubt.  Whatever it was that was out there, was out there.  Ralf released
control before the bridge crew could notice a change.

What was the old maxim?  "Once is coincidence.  Twice is stupidity.
Three times is enemy action."  Something like that.  Still, none of these
three looked like a direct threat.  It was the hidden trap that endangered
the expedition...

  
- ----------------------------
Gemini Arbiter
- ----------------------------
(Nicole sitting at the table picking at her food and looking around
 the ship at the results of their cleaning efforts)

(Aurelia, a sandwich in one hand, walking around the work area,
 picking up little odds and ends)

A: You know this place doesn't look half bad...
   +++ incoming message +++ (echos the computer)
   I wonder what now! "Go ahead Arby."

N: Maybe they've figured out who's in charge and want to tell us!
	
>...
>"Telemetry transmission will follow. Aurora out." *click*	

N: This is just great! Look what you've done now!

A: ME! I just fly this thing! You supposed to be the engineer!
   (momentary pause) I think we'd better try to rendezvous with 
   the Aurora!

N: I agree! Let's call Westwind too!

A: ISS Aurora. This is Gemini Arbiter. Commencing acceleration on your
   telemetry. Out.

N: Westwind. Did you copy that message? We're going to rendezvous at the
   Aurora... 

A: Look at that! (pointing to the sensor display)  Ships on intercept
   courses.  Looks like a party! 

N: ...Westwind lets get a little closer together. We don't have much in
   the way of protection...

A: Tight beam the rest! You idiot!

N: ...Gemini Arbiter. Out. 
   What for! ANYONE with a piddling little sensor can tell there's no
   weapons turret on this thing!

A: I suppose you're right!
   Let's see who the newcommers are. You scan while I bring us around.

+++incoming message+++(echos the computer)
>Gemini Arbiter, This is Admiral Ger of the Darrian Confederation,
>Currently in the employ of Turnskaad Corp. You are located in
>...

N: A military mission! Just what we need! You really did it this time!
   Now what are we going to tell them. You better think of something 
   good, and that they'll believe!

A: ME! 

N: YES YOU! Your the supposed to be the Captain of this vessel, that's
   what's on the ships papers!

A: Your a big help! Your part of this too you know.
   Oh well! Here goes...

N: They're Aslan.

A: Huh? What? Who're Aslan?

N: Those ships you told me to scan.

A: Oh! Hope they didn't claim this territory. We could be in trouble.

N: Nooo problem! We're diplomats remember. We have some form of immunity
   you know.

A: Out here in the middle of nowhere! Do you know how far we've jumped!
   Misjumed! Are options are kinda slim.

N: Like I said, no problem. This is what were good at. We might even
   make out on this!

A: You know. You're right! This is at least interesting. Better than
   this courier job we're supposed to be on.  I wonder if we'll be missed?

N: You know the company sends duplicates. With all the problems the
   Imperiums' having you think they'd just send us!

A: Okay. Okay. You've convinced me. Now all we have to do is convince
   them. 

(serious and professional)
Darrian shuttle. This is Aurelia Xerxes of the Gemini Arbiter.
Admiral Ger. We were enroute coreward on a diplomatic mission.
However, it is in all likelyhood our mission has been compromised
as far as our involvement is concerned. 
Therefore, due to the nature of the current situation we would
appreciate any help you would offer. It has been pointed out that
we are a long way from the main routes and would need assistance
returning.

The exchange need not be one way, though. We are prepared to offer
our assistance also. 

I'm sure some form of mutual agreement can be reached!
This is Gemini Arbiter. Out.

N: That was telling them!...

+++incoming message+++(echos the computer)
>"Ah, Westwind? Gemini Arbiter? We have tentatively identified another
>...

A: Did he get another one!

N: No. It's the same one we picked up. But he's right we should hurry
   it up.

A: Aurora. We copy. Will comply. Out.



- ----------
Kingfisher
- ----------
"Ky? KlashKy!" Blaine turns to the Sensor array, and does some
quick calculations. He then pulls up a holo of R-Alpha showing a trace
from the Aslan ships to the surface,  which proceedes to enlarge.
"Assuming a straight lift off this..." and a small white square
appears on the holo "... should be where the ship was grounded, within
a klik. Backtraceing the beam scatter from the known position of the
Aslans puts the beam target in approximately the same position."
Slight frown "Sir, would you like an Active sensor sweep of that area?
I can couple us to the Alcyon's sensor array, and it'll tell us
exactly what'd down there. `Course, it'll light up every sensor 
within a parsec."



- ---------
Trakh
- -----------
Akhouw glances at the holotank. "Many ships, but except for the large one,
probably a tender if the scans are accurate, they are all small fry. Probably
not a military force of any kind; with times as they are, even a reconaissance
would be in force." He distractedly strokes his mane with a paw. A purr-growl
rumbles from his throat, followed by an explosive laugh. "Obviously not Aslan,
either, to have come in such a rag-tag fleet, eh Aiwi? Those rogue newcomers
seem to be less than a formidable foe. Still, perhaps we should talk to
them." Another sharp laugh. "We can always fight them later..."

Akhouw turns to listen to his gunner's report on the weaponry of the
opposing craft. No surprises there; varied weapons generally at a high
level of alert. "Uhwaikh, remove secondary interlocks on defensive
systems. Continue scanning. Prepare to energize laser sub-systems and
load standard missile pattern, but maintain secondary interlocks."

Turning back to face the main viewscreen, Akhouw barks out orders.
"Fa'eairl, battle status! Yellow Alert." The ship's computer responds
with alacrity. The lighting on the bridge shifts to a more subdued
setting (at least to human eyes), casting an ominous reddish cast
over the bridge, but enhancing a predator's vision.


As he waits for the situation to develop, Akhouw meditatively flexes
his dewclaw, idly tracing patterns on the bulkhead. When the hail
comes in, he instantly snaps back into his well-worn command pose.
He opens his mouth, but then closes it and examines the holotank
briefly. A touch at the sensor panel and the icons in the tank are
overlaid with communications information. Akhouw purrs with quiet
satisfaction. Pointing a claw at the shuttle icon, he turns to
his communciations officer. "Aiwi, hail that ship on the maser
commlink. Use the standard Imperial acknowledgement code and
suggest visual communications."

Meanwhile, the ship's transponder broadcasts its message "Combat
Exploration Vessel *Trakh*, Clan Khaukeairl" over and over.


- -- 
Richard Johnson     richard@agora.rain.com
Sue Congress!

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

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Subject: TML Bundle #251: Msgs 3068
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TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
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Date: Wed Nov  6 21:00:32 PST 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #251: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
3069  03-Nov-91 Richard Johnson   PBEM Turn 91.01c << PBEM Turn 91.01c (533 lin

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3069
Subject: PBEM Turn 91.01c
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 91 17:16:27 PST
From: Richard Johnson <richard@agora.rain.COM>


PBEM Turn 91.01c (533 lines, 24 229 characters)
==============================================================================
This is PART 3 of 5.  It covers the third half hour or so.

***** current position of ships, etc. ****
Definitely NOT to scale  :=)  

(Top View)  Ring and Alcyon orbiting CCW as seen from here.

    W = Westwind, ~3 AU from Alcyon, 25 minutes each way for signals
   GA = Gemini Arbiter ~2 AU from Alcyon, 15 min. each way
    B = Bernoulli and Aurora, 10 minutes one way signal to Alcyon
    S = Shuttle, 5 min. one way
    T = Trakh, 5 min. now aloft, and intercepting

All the rest within a few seconds for round-trip signals
    P = Paladin, taking a couter-rotation sweep for faster mapping?
    K = Kingfisher ~ 5 minutes to Alcyon
   Al = Alcyon
   Ta = Talisman







                   W

                              GA                     __-----__
                                                    /         \
                                                   /           \
                                                  /             \
                                                  |             |
                                                  |             |
                                                 |               |
                                                 |       *       |
                                                 |               |
                                            Al P  |             |
                                                  |             |
                                                KS\             /
                                                   T           /
                                                 Ta \--_____--/

                                                       Au
                                                        B




===========================================================================


- ---------------
Aurora
- ---------------
"Aslan or no, that's our job and Commander Ger is counting on us. He's
on this mission because Turnskaad knew of his qualifications -- they
knew he might have to handle loads of sticky situations. Certainly he
has the ability to negotiate with some Aslan and reach an accomodation.
I have confidence in his ability to do just that -- so should you."
Christian gently chides 'Vouf. "This is no time to tuck in your tail
and surrender to the absurdity of it all. It's time we started throwing
it right back into Fate's teeth and take control."

"Surrender's a dirty word to my people, aenrra," 'Vouf says darkly, buttoning
up his collar and reaching for his helmet and PLSS-A pack.

Tucking his sleek gauss pistol in a shoulder holster, Christian steps
to the airlock control panel and, looking at 'Vouf, nods at the closed
outer airlock. "I'm going for a walk, aenrra, how about you?"

'Vouf checks his gauntlets, tool belt, and pistols, which are hanging low
on his thighs in fast-draw position. "Ready when you are, Christian." 
He carefully slips his muzzle into the helmet and secures it in place.

"Moira, current status and Bernoulli ETA, please." A few moments of
silence is broken by the melodic tones of the ship's computer.

<All systems nominal, sir. Fusion plant and maneuver drives are within
 tolerance limits. Aurora will intercept the Bernoulli in three point
 eight nine four minutes. (pause) Sensors indicate that the Bernoulli's
 power plant output has dropped fifteen percent. Diagnostics show main
 fuel pump failure. Switching to auxiliary pump and fuel routing systems.
 Compensating. Power output stabilized. ETA now one point seven six two
 minutes. Orders, sir?>

Christian considers the situation for a moment, then acts. "Moira,
bring the Bernoulli to all stop and take the Aurora down from overdrive
status. Initiate ship to ship docking sequence alpha two. Complete
maneuver and stand by for further orders."

<Aye, sir. Executing Alpha Two.>

The Bernoulli seemingly glides to a stop as the Aurora approaches from
aft, slowly settling closer to the Bernoulli, slower and slower until
the airlock mating collars meet and the Aurora likewise is still. A
slight jar as the ships mate, then the seal forms and an indicator
on the airlock control panel softly glows green.

Christian taps the door control and the outer iris valve smoothly
opens. Glancing back down the corridor, Christian motions to the
Iridium twins as he steps into the airlock proper. "Hey aenrra,
what'ja need, an Imperial invitation?" Christian waves 'Vouf into
the airlock, then closes the outer iris valve.

"Yeah, yeah, I'm here," 'Vouf mutters, looking blackly at the two 
robots, who are jostling him.

"Moira, open the Bernoulli main airlock doors." <Aye, sir. Done.>

The airlock's pressure controls stare at the boarding party with an angry
red glow.  Interior hull pressure 1000 torr. (1.3 atmospheres)  Christain
nearly looses his balance as he steps into the Bernoulli's lock.  Internal
gravity set for 7m/s^2 (.7G)  The pressure adjustment takes only a moment
and the sudden pressure increase seems to grip at the boarders bodies as
their vac suits clamp tight around them.

Christian takes a deep breath. "Ready or not, here I come!" A touch
and the inner door opens with nary a sound. The wisps of frost which
decorate the Bernoulli's airlock chamber glisten and glare in the
ambient lighting, an indication of damage to the outer seal. Bounding
through into the main corridor, Christian reflexively glances aft,
as if expecting a saboteur to loom out of the shifting shadows which
resulted from bomb damage to the aft lighting systems.

Pointing towards engineering, Christian yells to 'Vouf. "Aenrra, you
go aft and secure engineering; I'm going to the bridge, I bet that's
where the patient is." He swivels his head towards Dulinor and Lucan.
"Follow me!" Christian swiftly jogs fore-ward, the Iridium Twins
silently trailing in his wake.

The forward corridor has been extensively modified.  All the
stateroom bulkheads have been torn out forming one large communal room.
The wall and ceiling holopanels project an odd image as though the room
were on top of a high mesa overlooking a great desert.  A reddish sun
lights the room while whisps of holgraphic clouds roll across the sky.

The effect is somewhat spoiled by the large demountable fuel tanks which
take up half the volume of the room.

"Right behind you, aenrra." Bhyarrvouf stumbles in the lighter gravity
but recovers himself quickly, making his way down the hallway to the
Drive Room....and comes face to face with OSF-4.

He stifles a yip of fear, Leadfoot all too recent and painful a memory,
as he looks over the lethal warbot. "Oh, for the good old days," he
mutters in Vuakedh. "Well, if he wants to kill me, he will....*sigh*"

*click*

"I assume I'm addressing OSF-4? Well, ah, um, great! Great to meet you.
I see you did a good job of defusing the bomb." While making this nervous
patter and keeping a close eye on the RAM launchers, 'Vouf looks over the
Drive Room with a practiced eye. "What a mess," he says mildly. He turns
to the warbot and his voice takes on a ring of authority.


- ------
With his knowledge of the standard S layout, Christian reaches the
bridge in seconds. Looking in, he is momentarily taken aback at
the sight of Doctor Trrrweeerrrlll lying sprawled, half over an
acceleration perch. His pallor is alarming (even for an Ael Yael)
and his respiration is ragged and shallow. Despite the shock, there
is something about the forlorn figure which is familiar to Christian.
A vague memory, something about a courier mission? Christian shakes
the thought from his mind as he sets to work on the task at hand.

The air of the bridge is heavy, while the type S Scouts air system always
was a bit of a snafu, it can hardly deal with the stench of severe jump
sickness nausea.  There's your dehydration and malnuitrition right there!

A smaller Aeloid screeches in alarm.  With a single flap, it leaps to the
top of an acceleration perch and stares at Christian while looking
defensively at it's master.  Yet it keeps its distance from the operation
not interfering.

"Tiger, Down!" a voice comes seemingly from nowhere.  But quickly, a
boxlike robot detatches itself from the control panels and hovers over
to the small Aeloid which retreats glaring at the intruders.

"I am assistant robot Triple Three.  I am instructed to assist you.
I am not programmed for medical situations, but will assist in any
way consistant with my programming."

Squatting down on the grey deckplate, Christian sets the mode with
a thumb as he runs the medical scanner over the prone Doctor, then
turns to view the analyzed results on the portable med-computer.
As advertised, severe jump-sickness with a variety of complications.
Christian frowns. That wasn't expected. Respiratory distress, becoming
more severe as time passes, with attendant cyanosis.

Tweel's eyes flutter open slowly.   With difficulty focussing, he twists
his head around upsidedown to study Lucan closing in on him.
"Marrrk sseven medbot...  Obssollessscent..." His eyes close slowly.
"Planned obssolllessence... Ssstupid.   Upgrrrrrade..."  Tweel's neck
slowly untwists itself as he sinks back below conciousness.

- ---------
"OSF-4, I assume your primary responsibility is to safeguard the life of
your owner. My colleague is seeing to him right now, and will evacuate
him to the Aurora immediately upon stabilizing him. I want you to accompany
him over to the Aurora and observe the medical procedures. I also assume
you'll be monitoring what I do over here while you're gone; just so you know,
I'm going to mothball the Bernoulli for safe keeping until we can repair
her properly. That means a plant shutdown, venting the fuel, and a shift
of all systems to standby status. Then we'll flush the bad air out and
leave her in nice, clean vacuum. When we get ready to leave, we'll fuel
and re-air her and fix the machinery, not that it matters since she'll be
riding the Alcyon, that's our Jump tender, out of the system with us anyway."

- ----------
The Iridium Twins glide into position over the treatment site, with
sensor probes extended to supplement Christian's scanner. A quick
look at the other vital signs, then he dives into his medkit for
an injector and the ampule of Neojumpsin (universal jump sickness
serum). Christian attaches the ampule to the injector, verifies
the dosage level and injects Tweel. "Damn!" The vital signs improve
somewhat, but his respiration continues to decline. "Must have
weakened his pulmonary muscle control too much.." mutters Christian.

"Dulinor, inject 3cc Gamma-Nutrium. Analyze jump sickness complications
and suggest appropriate response. Lucan, compute Ael Yael dosage and
prepare Cordrazine injection. Hand me the portable support unit." As
the robot arm holds the pack out to Christian, the medcomp emits a
strident, continuous tone. Christian's head snaps over to look at
the vidscreen in fearful anticipation. "Pulmonary arrest!" Suddenly
the urgency rachets up a notch, as a flurry of activity breaks out.

"Lucan, inject NOW. Ready supplemental dosage." Christian snatches the
pack from Lucan and speedily attaches the cardio/pulmonary stimulator
unit to Tweel's chest region. He taps the controls and the gizmo
springs to life. A few minutes of frantic work and Christian reviews
the readout. Good, life signs stabilizing, but too low for comfort.
"Dulinor, Lucan -- help me get him into the portable med-berth." The
two robots pick Tweel up, carefully folding his five meter wing span, 
and 1.5 meter tail, and slide him into the capsule with perhaps
surprising gentleness and care considering the light weight but large 
bulk of the giant bird.

Christian taps his intraship communicator. "Aenrra, I have the
survivor stabilized but he needs to get aboard the Aurora stat. Am
heading there now. Van Der Merwe out." Christian gathers up his
supplies, then addresses his charges. "To the Surgery -- let's go!"
Christian jogs back down the corridor, the two robots carrying the
med-berth, trailing in his wake yet again.


"Go!" Bhyarrvouf watches the trio, pushing the berth, leave the Bernoulli.
He then turns to the two robots and says, "One more thing, you and the 
crew of this ship have placed yourselves in the hands of our team under 
the terms of the Distressed Spacefarers Act. You should review the legal 
responsibilities that entails, on BOTH of our parts, and further note the 
fact that you are boarding a ship of the IISS Intelligence Office, with 
the security regulations that THAT entails. No data taps or rewiring, 
understand?" He pauses.

"They're on their way to the airlock. I'll follow you." He waves OSF-4 away.

After Oscar leaves, 'Vouf quickly and carefully bags the remains of the
bomb, then finishes shutting down the rest of the systems. Life support 
sighs to a halt; the lights go out and are replaced by the self-powered 
emergency lights. Bhyarrvouf vents the remaining hydrogen from the tanks, 
and satisfies himself that the Bernoulli will be safe until refueled and 
started up again. 

On the way out, 'Vouf pauses for a moment. Visions of Leadfoot's metal fists
smashing into him come back vividly. He heads up to the Bridge, and finds
the main avionics panels. Carefully and with great speed, he locates the
main and backup computers, disconnects them, and removes the memories-- they
too will be safe until called for. 

"Job well done," 'Vouf mutters, crossing the bridge and shutting the airlock.
The Bernoulli is left behind-- safe and sound, but unable to maneuver or
sustain life until refurbished.


He rides the plume of escaping air across to the Aurora, dragging a motley
collection of frozen, bagged groats behind him on a taut-line.

The Aurora moves away toward its meeting with the Westwind and Gemini Arbiter,
leaving the Bernoulli safe and sound in space behind it....

"We're out of here, aenrra," 'Vouf reports, firing the Aurora's thrusters
on a preprogrammed course toward the rendezvous with Westwind and Gemini
Arbiter as he peels off his suit helmet. "Let me know how the patient is."


- --------------------
R-alpha
- --------------------
Dark...
Dark...
RED!!!
PAIN..CRAMP!

Casey struggles to a sitting position and starts kneading the cramp
out of his leg.  The red veil across his eyes turns pink and fades to
reveal a blast of green.

The cramp gone, Casey struggles to his feet, falls back to his knees
and pukes violently.

A few woozy moments later, he has unsteadily made his feet and is
taking stock.  On the ground is a lumpy looking black duffle, beside
it an oversized leather flight bag, sealed from the atmosphere.

Like an old InfoCom(tm) game, the inventory rolls through Casey's
muddled mind;

There is a duffle here.
There is a leather flight bag here.
There is a vacc suit here.

A vacc suit?  Yes.  That's what I threw off when I tried to sit up.
So, where's the ship?


The vacc suit is a minimal model and looks old and worn.  Casey thinks
he's had it for a while and then realizes he doesn't remember where or
when he got it.  And how to use it (as anything other than a cover
against the night), is also a mystery to him!

What the hell is going on?  I don't even know where I am!

Casey looks around the forest.  Large green plants are broken
revealing the path from whence he came.  Casey stumbles through the
plants arriving at a large scorched patch in the ground.  Glancing
around, Casey can determine a 'bounce path' for several larger pieces
of metal debris, similar to the one at his feet.

Thirst gnaws at the back of his throat.  His head is aching and he
starts to see the woods wheel around him.  Casey crumples to the
forest floor.....


Thirst.....thirsty......."I'm thirsty"

The sun is bright and high when Casey cracks his eyes open.

I must have been out for only a few moments.

Struggling to his feet, Casey wobbles back to his luggage.  A bit of
light steam rises from the moist ground.

The duffle's bottom is stuffed with some clothes and small packages. 
There is room for the vacc suit, and so Casey stows it.  Hefting the
flight bag is a pleasant surprise....not as heavy as it looks.

Casey slings the bag and dragging the duffle, starts to zigzag through
the undergrowth, heading down hill as best as his pounding head and
heaving stomach will allow.



- -----------
Paladin
- -----------
"Trrrrrrrrrrrrrrweeeerrrrrrrrrrrl? Vhy does anyone have trrrrrrouble 
prrrrronouncing zat...?"

Aboard the Paladin, Dr. Morser looks about to see telltales flashing like
christmas tree lights all around the bridge.

"Gott im himmel!! Vat is zis, a convention or somesing?"

Shortly thereafter, the comm boards light up also, as everybeing and their
progenitor squawks about what a mess this is. 'Vouf's cursing about 'too
many coincedences stikes a familiar chord in the good doctor...

"Qvite so, mein freund. Herr Goughzar, if you vould be so kind as to put
us, how do you say, 'on ze deck'? Since ve haff no vay of knowing who zese
other ships really are, I believe ve should go ahead und rend.. rondo..rand-..
(I hate zose frrrench vords) link up mit ze shuttle from R-Alpha as qvickly
as pozzible. Und tank you for ze suggestion, Dr. Limner und I vill start 
trying to enhance ze sensor data en route.

Frau Robins, can you giff me a tight-beam hail to ze R-Alphan shuttle? I
sink it is time ve intrrrduced ourselves, before anyvun else does it
for us, nicht war?"

With this, he turns to the computer console and links in with his own
wristcomp.
"Doctor Limner, caould you help me interpret zis data? It looks verry 
interesting...verrrrrrry interrrrrresting..."


Charyn has put the commo scanner on the speaker-vid for the benefit of
all who had been interested in following the communications goings-on.
Most aboard the Paladin have the option to have audio and/or video of
the communications displayed at their work area.


Doctor Limner seems to be in a state of shock or something.  Obviously
something has shaken him up.

(to Doctor Morser) "I'm sorry, Doctor.  What was that?  Oh, yes, sensors."

(to the Paladin computer) "PALADIN, please give me a tachyonic analysis.
  If you are familiar with the tachyonic signature of psionic activity,
  then configure the scan for optimal detection of such.  Pay special
  attention to the ships rising from the ring and the ring itself."

He then picks up one of his detectors, looks at it, and mumbles to
himself, "Completely overloaded.  What have we gotten ourselves into this
time?"  He then lets the instrument drop to the floor.  Looking utterly
despondent, he almost drudgingly turns and plugs his wrist-comp into
one of his mass storage units (the kind you might find in a laboratory,
containing hundreds of holocrystals worth of information).  He then types
a few commands into his wristcomp.  Anyone looking over his shoulder would
see him select file "Psi Omega", which brings up a menu.  After hesitating
over the item "trial", he selects "Rena", then "signatures".  He then
begins downloading information into his wristcomp.  Many messages flash on
his wristcomp display, such as "TELEKINESIS", "EMPATHIC PROJECTION: FEAR",
"PSYCHOPORTATION", etc.

Doctor Limner usually just seems absent-minded -- now he seems totally
oblivious to everyone around him.  A death-like mask is on his face.

Eventually, his wristcomp finishes loading.

(to the Paladin computer) "PALADIN, compare tachyonic signature analysis
to all tachyonic signatures in unit LIMNER HC 1 and inform me of any
similarities."

Doctor Limner looks so pale, he seems almost ghost-like.

(to Doctor Morser) "Excuse me, Doctor.  I seem to have a terrible
  headache."

Doctor Limner then faints dead away.

....and with Zar and Charyn conferring on the latest set of course corrections,
and Morser studying his 'SwatchComp' wrist computer, it takes a moment to
notice the sudden silence...

"Vat vas you saying, mein fr-   ACH! AUSGEFUCK!! Charyn! Ve need a medic, und
qvickly!  Doctor Limner has fainted!"

Zar snaps around to watch as Dr. Limner falls to the floor with a thud.
As Dr. Morser turns and calls to Charyn, Zar stops and listens to the
information coming over the open comm channel.

"PALADIN, active maximum sensor scan on R-Alphan shuttle. Maintain scan and
aquisition passive sensor lock on Aslan ships. Do not active weapons turret.
Open internal frequency to Command Shuttle and begin transmitting live data
on all scans. Active scan of Aslan launch site and surrounding area for 5km."

Charyn wheels around, looking dumly at Morser, then a second later the
mental clutch engages and she drops to a crouch next to Limner.  She 
immediately leans over the body, announcing a checklist to no-one in
particular: "check breathing... breathing regular... check pulse...
pulse regular..."

Karl steps over himself and begins to check his fallen comrade out himself.
"I'm not a medical doctor, Frau, but if you need mein aziztance, I haff 
limited skills in ze arrea...Oh, mein poor freund.."

Glancing about helplessly as Charyn takes over the examination, Morser spies
the viewplate of Limner's own computer, and wheels start to turn....

<Zar>
Charyn, if you need any help, I'm a class 1 medic.

Without looking up Charyn says in a commanding tone of voice, "Mister
Azani, please fetch the med kit from the bridge locker, and bring a some
blankets.  Thanks!".  She pauses an instant, then barks: "Now!" Azani
takes off like a well-oiled machine.

"Check for trauma... no visible trauma... looks a little pale... treat
for shock..." she mumbles.  Charyn gets to her knees looks up at Zar,
"Zar! Help me get him on his back then you can get back to the commo
thanks....".

"Hmmm...you don't say...Paladin, continue upload uf Herr Limner's files
to ze main computer. Frau Robins, chust before he passed out, Doctor Limner
vas schtudying zome data on psionics on his computer...perhaps he is somehow
sensitive to ze natives below?"

Charyn squints and mumbles something like "...damn the psionics..."


Finishing his dialog with the computer and Charyn, Zar turns to the general
sensor panel and quickly glances over the files Dr. Limner uploaded and
executed.

"PALADIN, keep file PSI-OMEGA active and running through all ship's scans. Code
and identify any neural activity inside our ships and any close enough to be
within range. Cross correlate with both Active and Passive EMS and Densitometer
scans and relay information to Command Shuttle and Alcyon archives."

Zar finally turns his attention back to the pilots controls when the computer
speaks 'R-Alphan ship making high power manuevers to a new intercept course.'

Zar crouches back at the controls and increases the acceleration to meet the
R-Alphan shuttle, and watches at the Talisman and Alsan ships light up with
active weapons and sensors.

Limner does not appear to be hurt.  Soon after Azani reaches him, he
starts to stir a little.  He's very groggy, though.  He seems to be
trying to say something, although his voice is very soft.  It sounds
like "reene ya".

Azani arrives with the blankets.  Azani and Charyn coordinate and get a
blanket under his raised feet and a blanket over top.  "Scanner, let's
see...".  She takes a somewhat helpless look at the scanner, spies a
power switch, and flicks it on, placing it on the doctor's chest.
"Uh-huh, okay for now."

"Doctor Limner, you just rest here for a couple minutes.  I think you're
going to be fine.  Azani, could you please watch the doctor? I'll go get
a gurney so we can make him more comfortable in a stateroom".

Limner is still groggy.  As he's being dragged off to his stateroom, he
apologizes in a slurred voice:

"Slorry.  I'm gnot husually like dis.  I'll be fffine."

He exhales strongly a few times.  Charyn worries for a second until she
realizes it is simply a semi-conscious laugh.

"Loong time ago.  Long time.  Shhhouldnn't lledt id get te me like dhis.
Oh, Rena..."

Suddenly, Limner realizes he is babbling and stops.  He shakes his head
a bit and says:

"I'll be OK.  I guess I just need to lie down for a few minutes.  Don't
stop the program I started.  Powerful psionics leave traces for a while.
We need to know what we're dealing with."

Limner lets himself be put to bed.

- -- 
Richard Johnson     richard@agora.rain.com
Sue Congress!

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

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To: dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin), bfwong@ocf.berkeley.edu (Raven Blackburn),
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Subject: TML Bundle #252: Msgs 3069
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Precedence: bulk
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 91 21:00:42 PST
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com>
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TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed Nov  6 21:00:39 PST 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #252: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
3070  03-Nov-91 Richard Johnson   PBEM Turn 91.91e << PBEM Turn 91.01e (722 lin

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3070
Subject: PBEM Turn 91.91e
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 91 17:19:20 PST
From: Richard Johnson <richard@agora.rain.COM>


PBEM Turn 91.01e (722 lines, 29 300 characters)
==============================================================================
This is PART 5 of 5.  It covers the fifth half hour or so.

***** current position of ships, etc. ****
Definitely NOT to scale  :=)  
(Top View)  Ring and Alcyon orbiting CCW as seen from here.

    W = Westwind, ~2 AU from Alcyon, 15 minutes each way for signals
   GA = Gemini Arbiter ~1.2 AU from Alcyon, 10 min. each way
    B = Bernoulli and Aurora, 6 minutes one way signal to Alcyon
    S = Shuttle, 1 min. one way
    T = Trakh, no time delay to speak of now

All the rest within a few seconds for round-trip signals
    P = Paladin, taking a couter-rotation sweep for faster mapping?
    K = Kingfisher ~ 10 minutes to Alcyon
   Al = Alcyon
   Ta = Talisman





                             
                                                     __-----__
                                                    /         \
                                     W             /           \
                                                  /             \
                                        GA        |             |
                                                  |             |
                                                 |               |
                                              Al |       *       |
                                                 |               |
                                                  |             |
                                                  |             |
                                                 P\             /
                                                 KT\           /
                                                 STa\--_____--/
                                                 
                                                    Au
                                                     B




===========================================================================

Gemini Arbiter
- ---------------
N: Somebody went active! A Merchant ship.

A: What!? Hope he isn't trigger happy!

N: Picked up a message pulse. Just looks like he's getting prepared.

A: (spoken matter-of-factly) Must be a military type!

N: (in a sarcastic tone) That's not necessarily true. You heard the 
   Admiral. Just because we're in a military zone doesn't mean HE'S 
   military (snicker, snicker).

[sometime later. . .]
>At the appearance of the latest ships from outside the ring and the 
>...

N: Wow! Look at him!

A: Who?

N: The Aslan.

A: What's he upto?

N: Looks like he responded to the Merchant. 

A: This is starting to look bad! 
   I think it's time to prepare for the worst.

N: You might be right but lets hold off for a while. We'll take turns
   watching the sensor display and see what develops.

A: (walking towards the bridge exit)
   Yeah. We're still a ways away so maybe we'll be able stay out of it.
   AND, since it's your idea you get first watch. I'm going to take a 
   bath!

N: (getting huffy at the console)
   That's not fair! 

A: (looking over her shoulder and exiting the bridge)
   See ya!



- -------------
Westwind
- -------------
Nick Talon and Hur'Shurvan exchange glances.
 
"Who ARE these clowns?" says Talon.  "I don't think they've made up
their minds whether they want to blow us out of the sky or offer us
a job!"
 
Hur'Shurvan taps delicately at his hand computer.  "I'll put this
down as a law level zero system, shall I, Nicholas?" he asks solemnly.
 
Talon nods rather absent-mindedly.  His attention is turned towards
the navigational display he has just called up.  "Shit.  They were
right about one thing, at least.  We're going to need their help to
get out of here."
 
"And it seems that we are not the only ones in such a predicament."
 
"Yeah.  Weird, that, isn't it?  Several ships misjumping into the
same system and arriving almost simultaneously.  The odds against
a coincidence like this must be incredible."
 
"Coincidence?" Hur'Shurvan murmurs more to himself than to Talon.
"Hmmm... I wonder..."  He peers closely at his hand-comp display.
 
"Anyway," says Talon, "I guess we'd better humour them."  He opens a
hailing frequency again.
 
"This is ISS Westwind.  We will approach on your given course as
requested.  It'll take us a few hours to get there.  Meanwhile, we'd
really appreciate it if someone would be kind enough to explain just
what is going on around here."





- -----------
Talisman
- -----------
Getting some data now, sir.

On the long-range sensor holo, the Aurora and Bernoulli are
clearly in view.  A high-magnification synthesis in one corner
shows first Doctor Vander Merwe with three other figures leave
the Bernoulli for the Aurora, and then few moments later, the
mission XO.

The Aurora had just tuned onto its new course and heading to leave the
mothballed Bernoulli behind and rendezvous with the Westwind and the
Gemini Arbiter, when its radio signal pings suddenly halted. Scans
show the Aurora drifting along the same course, no longer accelerating,
still warm and emitting neutrinos normally but showing NO EM activity
whatsoever. It's as if someone pulled her plug.


- ------------
Trakh
- ------------
As tensions between the fleets rise rapidly, Akhouw sits back in his
command chair to review his options, quickly. No telling what sort of
an admiral that Darrian was, whether faster to the trigger than most or
not was unclear. Too much was happening, too fast, with only the barest
of information to go on. Akhouw gnashes his teeth in silent frustration
and worry. No shots had been fired, yet, but that could change quickly.

Time slowly ticks by as the fleets warily consider each other, Akhouw
thinks, much as combatants in a ritual duel. Just as deadly, just as
earnestly serious.

Suddenly, the sensor board begins to beep softly and new information
glows into existence in the holotank. Akhouw turns to see what has
happened; maybe some action by the rogue scouts? As his eyes comprehend
the information in front of him, Akhouw is in shock. His whisper is
succinct. "Ihel taih iy'airl... (O, what danger has come...)"

He turns to his communications officer, urgency reflected in every
syllable. "QUICKLY, Aiwi, short tight-beam burst, ALL SHIPS IN RANGE,
the following message -- 'MOST URGENT: Hostile Imperial Fleet leaving
jumpspace, this system. Twelve ships. CONSIDER IMMINENT DEFENSIVE
ACTION.'" Turning to his own station, he punches up a comm panel and
commandeers a communicator. Directing it to the shuttle, he transmits
on the Emergency Channel. "Admiral Nanadh -- request immediate conference!
Urgent that we coordinate. Respond please."

Akhouw gazes at the holotank yet again. His fear is gone, replaced by the
confidence of his race. "So much to gain," he mutters, "and if it must
be paid for in the blood of an usurper, so be it." He growls in anticipation
of glory yet to come.


- --------------
Gemini Arbiter
- --------------
N: "Well it's about time you got here!"

A: (walking into the bridge looking very refreshed and eneergized)
   "What's been happening?"

N: (getting up to leave)
   "Nothing much.  Looks like the Bernoulli rescue is coming
   along nicely. The Aslans are still on intercept course and there
   seems to be some sort of communications going on."

A: "Maybe there won't be a fight after all."
   (talking over her shoulder as Nikki leaves) "By the way, I've
   drawn up  a bath for you!"

N: (grining ear-to-ear) "That's great! I knew you were good for
   something."


- -------------
Aurora
- -------------
"And based on his predilection for cybergear," Vouf sighs, 
"I'd say your patient is partially responsible."

He sighs again, and turns to Tweel (if he's conscious) or Oscar (if Tweel
isn't). "I would HATE to have to blow this ship up and everyone on it
to safeguard my mission and the vital IISS Intel Division data your
virus accessed. But I'll do it, in an instant, and I can't be stopped.
I want to know just what you were trying to accomplish by hijacking
our ship, when you knew damned well it couldn't make the Jump out of here
on its own. I need alternatives to murder/suicide, gentlemen."

Tweel's eyes drift open and focus on the Vargr as he speaks.  His head
flips upside down to stare at him.  The focus is variying when his
attention suddenly diverts to the AGNIS camera floating over the
Subcommander's shoulder.

Recognition of the unit is intsantateous.  "Rrreporrrterss?...  What
are damn rrreporrrterrss doing on an IISSss ship?"

A look of pain crosses his face with sudden realization...
"WIND SHEAR!!! NO INTERVIEWS!!!!!  My ssship's been ssabotaged my friend
murdered and you want to know how it *FEELS!!!*"

"Ignore the AGNIS unit," Bhyarrvouf says mildly. "I stole it from an
INN newstaper as a practical joke. And speaking of sabotage, I'd
like to know why you, claiming to be a loyal IISS member, have infected
this ship with a virus designed to take it over. We would have been 
glad to repair the Bernoulli and get it going again, once we had the
time and resources, but you've forced our hand." 

He leans over the Ael Yael and says slowly and carefully, "I know you're
in bad shape right now, Doctor, but we need your help. How do we stop
the virus? We'll die out here, slowly and agonizingly or quickly and with
a very loud POP, all of us, if it can't be stopped. Your treatment is NOT
contingent on answering-- my colleague is a medical doctor in the finest
sense of the wors, and will do his best to help you no matter whether or
not you choose to help us."

His voice becomes insistent. "HOW DO WE STOP THE VIRUS!"

Tweel slowly recognizes the sounds being made by an irate Vargr as
'words' understands the problem and responds.

"You may not trrrussst me, but I have had nothing to do with thiss
virusss.  I sssee you have taken the main computer core of the Bernoulli.
In the windss I have flown, I find it verrry nessesssary for virus
prrotection.

"You will find that the Bernoulli's banks have vaccine programs.
Since your main computer issss crrasshed, ssubsstitute Bernoulli's CPU."

"Who is above us to be dropping virus prrogrrams on uss?"

Tweel raises his head.  The long neck craning around like a giant snake.

Shakily he stands on the examining table, and spreads his 5 meters of
wings.  Blood flows into the outstreched wings, pumping hard.
His talons grip the table and he takes a few exercizing strokes, the
heavy muscles of his keel and wings pumping blood and adrenalin like a
fire hose.

His wings begin to glow pale red.  Two large spots on his wings turn
from white to fire-engine red, like the eye spots on a giant butterfly.

He raises his head and screeches a hunter's cry that echoes in the ship.
"KEHARRRRRRR!"
"All right!  I've been betrrayed!  Ssabotaged!  My besst frriend is dead!
I've been Blown up!  Sshot down!  Sshut in!  Kicked out!  And generallly
sstamped on!"

"None of this was in my hands!  I could do nothing but watch it happen!
Now your ship is being attacked... Prrobably by the same KKrrreeecks that
bombed my ship and killed Macin!  But this time it's something I *CAN*
fight!  You there!  Varrgrr what'ss yourr Name!  Sshow me a damn terrminal
and I'll kossh your Blassted Merrchant-Loving virruss!"

"The great hunter got close, he had me in his sights!  But I escaped him!
I'll be damned if I won't lead the Great Bastard a damn good chase if
he wants my head on a wall!"

"A virus loose!  Eh?!"  Tweel's head cranes around and fixes on Oscar.
"No sence taking chances.  Oscar, recognize Trrrweeeerrrlll, Kresssh,
Doctor!  Priority command:  Land on the floor and shut down all systems."

Oscar Sierra Foxtrot Four lowers quickly to the floor with a resounding
clang and shuts down.

"Triple Three!  recognize Trrrweeeerrrlll, Kresssh, Doctor!  Priority
command:  ECM to maximum alerrt sstatuss!  Cut all power to interrnal
weapon ssysstemss!  In case of unauthorized acccesss you are dirrected to
sshut down *ALL* ssysstemss and ssubssidiariess.
Now Get me ssome food!  I've rregurrgitated enough to feed thirrty ssixess
of nesstlingss!"

Tweel's head snaps round at 'Vouf with a glare of fire and a blaze in
his voice. "You! Varrrgrrr!  I don't carrre if you trrrusst me orr not!
Get me a terminal so I can fight!  KEHARRRRR!!!"

Bhyarrvouf watches the Ael Yael's outburst with a mixture of alarm, 
interest, and dawning respect. He nods slowly.

"So you can fight, hrrrrm?" He grins, displaying long white teeth.
"From one born prey-killer to another, those are words I've missed
hearing."

He heaves up the CPU unit onto the table in Sickbay. "You'll work in
here," he says briskly, "So the Doctor can keep an eye on you. You 
may FEEL like killing a Crested Jabberwock bare-handed, but you're
still weak." He indicates a huge duffel bag on the floor near 333.
"Your robot cleared out your personal effects," he says. "You should
find your computer gear in there. Failing that, I've rigged a special
system to do some exploratory work of my own." He holds up a small
hand-computer. "No I/O except one port. Keypunches in, screen display
out. No chance for mischief."

He hooks up the CPU to the unit and types, saying the words out loud.

"Hi there...me again...comfy?" 

He barks a loud laugh, and waves a hand to the CPU. "Trust breeds trust,
Doctor Ter-Weerl." He cocks a thumb at himself, and Tweel notices for the
first time that both of his arms are encased in gleaming metal to the
elbows. "I'm Bhyarrvouf, IISS retired--among other things. Call me 'Vouf.
My aenrra with the med gear and the worried look on his face is Doctor
Sir Christian van der Merwe, IISS, Order of Starship and Crown. Here's
your virus. Eat him alive for us!"

He turns to leave. "The two backup computers are in pieces on the Bridge 
floor," he says. "They MAY not be infected. But be careful--Moira was
a TL-15 monstrosity of a computer, and this thing went through her defenses
like they weren't there. NO uplinks or radio connections to the infected 
machines. If you get hungry, you can drag in a groat before it gets col--"

He stops dead. His eyes widen. "Radio uplink," he whispers. "Kae, kakh
TSAKHA! The fleet must think we've been destroyed! And with those Aslan
nearby--"

He doesn't finish. He's already running for the door.

Tweel's eyes fall upon the good Dr. Van Der Merwe, his head turns upside
down fixing the Doctor with an odd stare of recognition.
"Doctorrr... Van Derr Merrwe?  Chrrisstian?  What arrre you doing herrre?
And ssince when did you get wisse and trrade those Navy ingrratess for the
Ssscout sservicce?"

Tweel makes a painfully slow glide to the floor, weak and unsteady, even
in .1G, he still wobbles a bit.  "Sso I have you to thank for my life, Kh?
Well let'ss ssee what we can do about this virruss and I'll rreturrn the
favorr."

"Christian, unless those mark seven medbots of yours are custom, they have
no ECM.  Unless you think they may be needed, I suggest you shut them
down.  Oscar has milgrade ECM, but I don't like taking chances, but I
need Triple three."

"Triple three, get my hand comp and some holochips... and get me one of the
grroats, I haven't been able to hold solid food for six days."

"Commander 'Vouf, I seriously doubt that the other two computerr assemblies
are free of a virus.  After all the purpose of a trrinarry computer
system is that all thrree rrun in parrallel cross checking their answerss.
When one CPU's answerrs are inconssisstant with the otherr 2, it iss out voted
by those two.  If one is conssisstantly inconssisstant, it is sshut down for
rrepairrs.  Now you know your system betterr than I, where do you suggesst
we sstarrt?"


- -----------------
Gemini Arbiter
- -----------------
A: (yelling into the air) "NIKKI!"

N: (abruptly broken out of her reverie, slips and almost
   drowns herself)
   (climbing out of the jacuzzi, and thinking to her self 'This
   had better be good.')

A: "The Aurora just went dead!"

N: "What?"

A: "No EM signals whatsoever are coming from her."

N: "Arby. Do a full scan of the ship."

A: "We're still a little to far for the other sensor.
   (noticing that Nikki, bending over the console, is still 
    dripping wet from her bath)
   "Hey! Watch it! You're dripping all over the console! Go dry
   off and get some clothes on!"    

N: (straightening up with hands on hips, glaring at Aurelia)
   "You called me up here! Besides a little water won't hurt
   anything."
   (looking back at the sensor display)
   "Did the Aslans do someting?"

A: "No. Not a thing. The Aurora was separating from the Bernoulli
   and a few minutes later, nothing."

N: "Let's call the Westwind."

A: "Right. They can back us up while we go in."

N: "My thoughts, exactly."
   "Westwind. This is Gemini Arbiter..."

A: "I'll start the maneuvering. YOU, go get some clothes on!"

N: "Oh, all right!" (mumbling under her breath) "You DID call me
   up here! Ruined my bath!  grumble, grumble, grumble"

+++scan report+++ (echos the computer)

A: (looking at the holodisplay and talking to herself)
   "No thrust, just drifting, power plant looks like it's still
   functioning, lifesupport looks okay. I wonder what happened?
   Hell-of-a time to start maintenance on electronics!"

N: (looking a litte better) "Anything new?"

A: "No. Still the same."

N: (settling into her station) "Interesting scan report. Well,
   let's go."
   (pause) 
   (sarcasticly) "And don't run into them!"

A: (looking exasperated, but with affection) "Good thing we're 
   sisters!"
   

- -----------
Aurora
- -----------
The Aurora glides silently through the inky blackness, still straight and
true for the rendezvous but no longer accelerating. "One problem at a 
time," Bhyarrvouf pants, hauling a huge tangle of gear out of the airlock
and gingerly making his way out onto the hull of the Scout. The Bernoulli 
is already barely visible behind them, and ahead of them is the occasional
flare of thruster plates against the impossible green band of the Ring.

"A pretty theoretical problem," he pants to himself as he works. "Two 
misjumps into the same area of space in the same week." With a grunt, he
attaches a set of bootclamps to the hull, and fastens himself securely
down. "Postulate a 36-parsec-radius sphere of known space." He begins
to wire components together carefully. "Given troop and civilian 
movements, number of ships in the sky, and problems with nav control,
missed maintainance and fuel supplies, two misjumps SOMEWHERE in that
sphere are quite reasonable." He connects a cable to a power conduit.
"Ergo, we may conclude that something in R-Alpha's construction serves
as a strange attractor in the Jumpspace n-dimensional manifold, causing
a focussing effect upon the normally misdirected high-quantum Jump
continua." He makes a delicate adjustment, checks a sight readout.
"In other words, a misjump magnet of cosmic proportions."

He pauses, panting. "That means that this big krafla-hoop has been sucking
in ships for millenia, and we STILL haven't heard about it until now."
He pauses. "I could win the Germantown Award or the Ishagga Prize if
I could figure out how it does that. And hey! That means R-Alpha will
be swarming with marooned spaceers looking for something like the 
Alcyon! Now THERE'S a pleasant thought." 

Finally done, he hefts his jury-rigged monstrosity to his shoulder and
sights down it. In anything other than zero gravity it would be impossible
to lift, a cannibalized communication system wired to a high-gain antenna
and a huge laser cannon. It dwarfs him as he scans the horizon. "Pretty 
little problem, in its own way," he whispers. "Like hitting a moving
starship with a laser pulse at half an AU with no computer to help you."

Wavering ever so slightly, the crosshairs settle on the Kingfisher.

"God, I hope you're listening, Zben," 'Vouf mutters, pulling the trigger.

*click*

A slight pan to the left, and there is the Paladin, dead in his sights.

"Charyn, PLEASE don't be asleep on the job...." *click*

And the Korondor Talisman, off to the side....

He hesitates, then turns away. "Nah," he sighs, "Too busy to listen."

Several seconds of scanning the skies ahead, and there is the slim
wedge of the Gemini Arbiter, a long way off.

"Worth a try, assuming those bitches know bytes from barbecue...." *click*

And last but not least, all the way across the ring, barely visible, the
tiny moving speck that is the Westwind.

"No chance, right? Kakh, I feel lucky." *click--PAF!*

"Hrm?" 'Vouf notices a puff of gas crystallizing into ice at his shoulder.
He quickly examines himself and the device. "Blew the lasing tube on that
last one, you stupid old wolf," he mutters. "Unless we get the damn 
computer up and running, we won't have a second chance." He turns back
to the airlock. "Not that the FIRST one was worth all that much...."

As he climbs down to re-enter the ship, he starts to sing to himself.

"I'll send an SOS to the world
I'll send an SOS to the world
I hope that someone reads my
I hope that someone reads my
Message in a bottle...."

The airlock shuts, and the sky is still once more.


- ---------------
Gemini Arbiter
- ---------------
"Westwind. This is Gemini Arbiter."
"Hi Nick, this is Nikki. We're going in to see what's the problem
with the Aurora. As you've probably noticed, we don't have any
ship-to-ship weapons  so we would like to suggest that you cover
us while we check out the Aurora."
"Together we might be able to figure out what's happening without
getting killed."
"Gemini Arbiter. Out."


- -------------
Paladin
- -------------
The sensors record a flash from the Aurora.  Simultaneously, Charyn,
who has tightly coupled herself to the sensor array emits a groan and
falls to the floor.  Limner's console, with the psi detection program
running, starts flashing, in bright yellow,  *UNIDENTIFIED* over and
over.

Automatic relays pass the data immediately on to the Kingfisher and 
to the Alycon.

The main computer, a TL16 glory of human engineering, slows for a 
moment, and the lights dim...

Making no noise, but moving as though fire, Goughzar goes for the 
manual controls and starts activating backup systems that were 
isolated from the main.


- --------------
Aurora
- --------------
"Precisely my point," 'Vouf sighs. "If they all MEAN that stuff about
'the peace of the cosmos,' maybe we'll LIVE through this...."

Leaning against the bulkhead, Christian mutters "Peace? That would be
a first." A note of anger appears in his voice. "Turnskaad lures us all
aboard with a beguiling tale of mystery and untold potential for
scientific discovery. Yet at every *damn* turn, we find death, violence,
sabotage, more threats, danger, on and on and ON, dammit. If it wasn't
for the importance of this discovery, well, aenrra, I'd be sorely tempted
to tell 'Skaad to zark off and go my own way..." Christian subsides into
a tired pose, the strain of recent events clearly wearing him down.

"Opinions, Doctor? We may have no choice in the matter. Christian?"

Christian shrugs. "I figure if it was going to kill us, by design or by
accident, we would have known that by now." Despite his weariness, a
spark of curiosity is evident in his voice. "Communication, fellow
sophonts, is key. If we cannot or should not stop this being, clearly
we must try and ensure that we reach some sort of understanding."

Concern returns to shadow Christian's face. "Of course, it is clearly
curious, but even curiosity can kill if allowed to grow unbounded. If
it is open to persuasion, perhaps we can convince it to exercise some, ah,
discretion."

"Hrf? Oh!" 'Vouf lifts a gauntlet and performs a subtle hand motion.
"Disarmed," he says happily. "I was kinda HOPING I wasn't gonna hafta
blow us up...."

Startled, Christian shoots a questioning glance at 'Vouf. "You were
ready to destroy all of us?" Christian is surprised; the knitting of
his brows and his vocal tone indicates unhappiness. His next cutting
remark is wholly unexpected. "When I go to meet Charissa, I don't want
to arrive in a surprized daze of suicide stupidity." His hurt expression
is more eloquent than any spoken words. He looks at 'Vouf and his gaze
wavers. Christian turns silently and stalks off to his stateroom in
search of solitude.

He staggers to his feet and throws a careless salute at the computer.
"I know when I'm beat," he giggles. "Yes, SIR! Repairs proceeding at ONCE,
sir!"

He opens the sickbay door, laughing, "Come on, Hunter-Above! There's a
dozen groats that're gonna go moldy if we don't eat'em. We may as well
have a last meal while we put Junior back together...."

>From the direction of the small but complete galley, the varied smells
of a meal in progress slowly waft along the corridors, along with the
faint sounds of clattering cookery. The odors vaguely suggest a cooked
synthosteak with a side of spicy, sauced vegetables. The noises subside
into Christian's stateroom, followed by a nearly inaudible *snick* as
the door closes and locks.

For the first time in 'Vouf's memory, the voice of Christian Van Der
Merwe is not heard aboard the Aurora. Usually, Christian is bantering
with 'Vouf or conversing with Moira or simply engaged in some sort of
activity.

The silence is deafening.


- ------------------
Westwind
- ------------------
"Westwind to Gemini Arbiter.  I don't know how to break this to you,
Nikki, but we're not armed either.  I'd strongly recommend that you
keep your distance from the Aurora -- at least until we get a clearer
idea of what's happening.  Those Turnskaad guys might get very touchy
if they think we're meddling with one of their ships.  They may
prefer to deal with it themselves.  Maybe we should ask Admiral Ger
if he wants us to investigate."


- ------------------
Aurora
- ------------------
"Basically," 'Vouf smiles, "The company lawyers think I'm working on you
to sign a contract joining our mission. If you work with the two of us,
it's not likely that there'll ever be a need to actually hand over the
paperwork. Of course, you legally can't be paid for your part, but if
your pride won't let you subcontract out to merchants, well, tough."

Tweel listens to 'Vouf's news in stunned silence.  Merchants...  A whole
damn fleet of them.  The battle for Jayelya was not that long ago.

Aels with percussion cap revolvers vs. human mercenaries with battle
dress and fusion guns.  The slave camps.  Genocide.  Wing clipped
slaves forced to mine the floor of the glittering sea.  All under the
eyes of the Megacorps.  All in the name of profit.

Tweel's wings turn fireengine red as he listens in silence.  He raises
his eyes to look at a ceiling that is much too close for comfort.
Oh for the skies of Jayelya...

He answers absently, "What?  A lawyer?  Sign Papers?"

Lawyers.  The most dangerous enemy.  Even when the Aels had practically
driven the merchants from the surface at a horrible loss of lives, the
companies lawyers fought to make certain that Aels were not seen as
intelligent beings...

Grandfather and his old recipie book, He did say barbequed Lawyer was
the best dish he'd ever had...

Tweel's brain raced with crazy thoughts.  Maybe he could kill them all
before they got him.  Maybe OSF-4 could swing the battle.  Turn the Aslan
against them...

But that mightn't help R-Alpha from becoming another slave labor camp
run by insane profitteering merchants.  Great Hunter, why do humans
threaten the entire galaxy?  Humans and their stupid 'Governments'
No, they still have the herd insticts, but perhaps not enough.  They
kill members of their own herds.  No, Humans are NOT civilized.  The
Rebellion has shown that humans will never be able to handle the
freedom of anarchy as Aels enjoy.

But they do realize this.  One of their philosophers said,
"The government that governs best, governs least."  But they can
never be ready for true freedom.

This corporation must not exploit the sophonts of R-Alpha.  Sure, let
them trade, but if they try their old slaver tactics...  But how can I
stop them?  Need more information...  I need to verify the truth of this
Vargr's words.

Tweel's voice is toneless evan as his talons claw absently at the air.
"Verry well, Misterr 'Vouf...  I will sign
these papers you speak of...  But first I want more evidence than just
your word on the matter...  Chrristian's testimony also...  Under scan
by Oscar's NAS scanner.  Then, I'll KNOW the truth of where you stand."

"Trriple Thrree, go and rreactivate Oscar and brring him herre.
I need him here now..."

Tweel sits silently as 333 rushes off to the deactivated warbot.


- -------------
Aslan Pinnace
- -------------
"Admiral, I respectfully must request that you give me the coordinates 
of the enemy fleet again.  My feeble sensors cannot distinguish it from 
the background of deep space."


- ----------------
Aurora
- ----------------
The Aurora's EM signature is back, as if it were never gone.
A moment later, a coded datapulse from the Aurora is received
by the Kingfisher, the Korondor Talisman, the Paladin, the
Trakh, and even the Gemini Arbiter and Westwind. Some pulses
are encrypted in the agreed-upon codes; messages to the Aslan
and the two new ships are in clear Galanglic.



- -- 
Richard Johnson     richard@agora.rain.com
Sue Congress!

------------------------------

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Subject: TML Bundle #253: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
3071  03-Nov-91 Richard Johnson   PBEM Turn 91.01d << PBEM Turn 91.01d (550 lin
3072  03-Nov-91 Richard Johnson   PBEM Turn 91.01f << Okay. Make that SIX parts
3073  04-Nov-91 Adrian Hurt       Re: How far does artificial gravity work? << 
3074  04-Nov-91 zonker@ihlpf.att. Re: First Battle type Boardgame? Frank Chadwi
3075  04-Nov-91 bonnevil@stolaf.e Re: Oberlindes << In (3064) Hello and 3 quest
3076  04-Nov-91 Mike.Metlay@ORGAN Carsten's queries << Welcome, Carsten. Here a
3077  04-Nov-91 Nicholas Sylvain  Re: The TURN (Nick Sylvain's "hole in the bag

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3071
Subject: PBEM Turn 91.01d
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 91 17:17:20 PST
From: Richard Johnson <richard@agora.rain.COM>


PBEM Turn 91.01d (550 lines, 23 136 characters)
==============================================================================
This is PART 4 of 5.  It covers the fourth half hour or so.

***** current position of ships, etc. ****
Definitely NOT to scale  :=)  
 
(Top View)  Ring and Alcyon orbiting CCW as seen from here.

    W = Westwind, ~2.5 AU from Alcyon, 20 minutes each way for signals
   GA = Gemini Arbiter ~1.5 AU from Alcyon, 10 min. each way
    B = Bernoulli and Aurora, 6 minutes one way signal to Alcyon
    S = Shuttle, 1 min. one way
    K = Kingfisher ~ 7 minutes to Alcyon
    T = Trakh, 3 min. now aloft, and intercepting

All the rest within a few seconds for round-trip signals
    P = Paladin, taking a couter-rotation sweep for faster mapping?
   Al = Alcyon
   Ta = Talisman





                             
                                                     __-----__
                                  W                 /         \
                                                   /           \
                                                  /             \
                                        GA        |             |
                                                  |             |
                                                 |               |
                                              Al |       *       |
                                                 |               |
                                                  |             |
                                                 P|             |
                                                K T             /
                                                 S \           /
                                                  Ta\--_____--/

                                                     Au
                                                      B




===========================================================================

Phin Shuttle
- ------------
Doejin eventually manages to persuade Ferdy to make himself useful
by operating the sensors.
 
"Doejin!" cries Ferdy.  "The sensors are lighting up like a school
of chatrasti fish!  There are ships all over the place!"
 
Eventually Ferdy calms down a little and starts to give Doejin some
details of what ships are where.

At Ferdy's quick identification of several more ships joining the area
the curiosity of the situation is soon displaced by unease in Doejin.

"Ferdy, you may know someone on one of these ships, and I would love to meet
these visitors, but now, I feel a fire in my flukes and it isn't pleasant!
Which one of these ships has your friend?  Maybe we can get his ship to come
to us.

Ferdy indicates one of the ships on the sensor displays.  "He's in that
one.  The one the humans call 'Talisman'."

I am going to give a little distance between us and these vessels.  I have
never seen it so crowded out here.  Plus, I haven't been this far out since
I took my first solo in a maintenance craft!"  (Oops, let that one slip! With
a small blush from Doejin, it was one of the few brief irresponsible actions of
his youth.)

Doejin pilots the craft perpendicular to the line of intersection between as
many of the other ships as possible while waiting for the answer from Ferdy on
the location of his friend.  The maneuver is done with full maneuver capability
plus any extra Doejin can coax with his psi.



- -----------
Trakh
- -----------
Akhouw notes the maneuver with interest. Exclaiming to the bridge in general,
he shouts "Ftahlr! You see, this one? An alien with intelligence. Only a fool
stands his ground between two armed khtea." Akhouw chuckles. "An interesting
trip so far, all around..."


- -----------
Talisman
- -----------
Aslan?  ASLAN?!?  Here?  Already ON the r-alpha macrostructure?
Military, it looked, despite some EM camoflage.  They didn't seem capable of
the subtlety involved in faking the other ships, not without outside help,
particularly not without humans to set up the voice simulation models at the
least.  The Ael Yael...  doubtful anyone but another Ael Yael or somebody
closely associated with one for many years would be able detect a fake, but
the information from the Bernoulli appeared accurate.

The Aslan approach seemed aggressive, if not openly hostile.  And
the Turnskaad expedition had a few scouts, a far trader, a tender... nothing
up to real naval standards.  Perhaps it would be better to deal from a
position of strength.  Or, at least, from the *appearance* of a position of
strength...

With the thought Ralf was outside the hull of the Talisman, clinging
to the fringes of the datasphere.  A blue-glowing line reeled out towards
the Aslans, spiked tip arrowing ahead across the unfathomable space.
Seconds of inactivity crawled by until Ralf "felt" the impact of the
grapnel, the shock reverbrating back up the line.  The light-speed delay
would be a serious problem, requiring steps he hated to take, but needs
must... Ralf offloaded some of his mental processes onto his chip and
wrapped them in code, then slid the heuristics package "down" the line
towards the Aslan ship.  Again, the seconds crawled by...

Then he felt the tug on the line.  He let it pull him, paying out
more line behind him to maintain the tenuous connection to the Talisman,
then "dove" out into space, freefalling alongside the line.  A peculiar mix
of timeless falling and instantaneous distortion, of "pouring" himself
through an all-too-narrow aperture to another location, and then he was
there, in the buffer space at the fringe of the Aslan datasphere, watching
the interplay between the two ships.  A stroke of luck, that.  The telemetry
and encrypted communications between the two meant they had to be somewhat
"open" to incoming signals, which in turn meant he had barely enough space
for the foothold his heuristics package had secured.

And now... press here, manipulate there... catch an incoming data
package and strip away the stale encrypted code (why are military minds
*so* predictable?) to replace it with a bootstrap, then pass it smoothly
back into the flow of information and watch it sink into the defenses of the
Aslan datasphere, absorbed harmlessly.  Moments later, a segment mutated in
the crystal geometry his mind used to visualize the datasphere defenses.  A
split, then an opening, and a slender thread he could latch onto and ride
down into the Aslan sphere.

Hm... intriguing.  The cores were well-defended, too tricky to
penetrate without risk of detection, which could set off a full-blown
battle.  The Aslan's sensors, on other hand, had to be on the fringes of the 
datasphere - defined the perimeter of the datasphere, in fact.  And what you
perceived, might as well be real...


- -------------
Westwind
- -------------
Talon is taking a shower when Hur'Shurvan's voice comes floating over
the Westwind's PA system.
 
"Nicholas, I have been monitoring radio traffic in the system..."
 
"Yeah?  Any answer to my call yet?"
 
"Not yet.  I don't believe there has been enough time for a turn-
around. But I have received something which I think you should come
up to the bridge and listen to."
 
"Oh.  Umm... Is it urgent?"
 
"Yes, I'm afraid it is quite urgent.  Sorry to interrupt you."
 
"Ok.  I'm coming."  Talon turns off the shower and steps out.  He
grabs a bathrobe and wraps it around himself as he strides towards
the exit of his stateroom.  The door swishes open and he steps out
into the corridor, still dripping wet.  He stifles a curse as his
bare feet give him a cold reminder that the corridor is not carpeted.
 
A few steps take him to the bridge where Hur'Shurvan is waiting for
him.  "Let's hear it," says Talon as he slumps down into the pilot's
seat, trickling a small puddle of water onto the floor.
 
"First," says Hur'Shurvan, "I would like to play you some other
messages in order to give you some sense of context."
 
Talon nods assent, and Hur'Shurvan begins to play back various
messages that have been coming in.  Most seem to be some very
confusing goings-on involving a semi-conscious Ael Yael and a
semi-demented Vargr.
 
"Now we come to the important one," says Hur'Shurvan.  He plays the
distress broadcast from the Gemini Arbiter.
 
Talon listens intently.  As the recording progresses, his eyes light
up and a broad grin begins to grow slowly on his face.  "What IS going
on here, Shurv?  Some sort of convention?"
 
"I have managed to get a fix on the Gemini Arbiter," says Hur'Shurvan.
"If our sensors can be trusted, then ours is the closest vessel.  If
we alter course immedately, the computer has estimated that we can reach
it in approximately thirty-seven hours.  We should go to assist at
once, Nicholas."
 
"I'm way ahead of you, Shurv."  Talon's hands are already playing
across the console in front of him.  "Computer..."
 
+++ ready +++
 
"Open a hailing frequency to the Gemini Arbiter."
 
+++ hailing frequency open +++
 
"Attention Gemini Arbiter.  This is ISS Westwind responding to your
distress call.  We are plotting an intercept course.  ETA... oh,
something like thirty-seven hours.  Hope you can hold on for us to
arrive.  My name's Nick, by the way."
 
Talon closes the channel and turns to Hur'Shurvan, still grinning.
"Shurv, I think I might just get to like this system..."



- -------------
Aurora
- -------------
Things were finally starting to quiet down on the Aurora.  The distress call
of the Bernoulli was answered, and its sole survivor now in the capable hands
of Dr. Van Der Merwe.  Now the crew could stop for a moment and take stock of
their rather unusual, and certainly unexpected, situation.  Calm was
beginning to prevail once more...

Then, a barely noticable flicker in the lights; a small crackle on one of
Moira's monitors.  Something was happening...

_Integration sequence initiated._

<Alert.  Unauthorized access attempted to main CPU.>

Bhyarrvouf is a black and white blur of motion. In a flash, he has the access
plate off the main avionics bay.

_Override alert status.  Execute phase two integration sequence._

<Alert.  Alert.  Alert.  Activate anti-hijack program.  Security overlocks
being breached.  Alert.>

Two hard pulls on two fiber optic cables, and the two backup computers for 
the Aurora are forcibly offline. A metal fist bangs down on the EMER HALT
buttons, and their memory packs jettison onto the deck with a clatter.

_Cancel alert.  Belay anti-hijack sequence.  Initiating final integration
sequence._

<Alert.  Anti-hijack program deactivated.  Security compromised.  Loosing
control...>

A swipe of a hand, and the main I/O port to the main computer is severed.

_Control of main CPU achieved.  Executing diagnostic._


"Diagnose away, motherhumper," Bhyarrvouf growls, grabbing the main power line
in one hand and ripping out the backup powercells with the other.

A few seconds more pass.  All computer controls freeze.  The monitors now
show only the last message displayed, "_Control of main CPU achieved.
Executing diagnostic._"  Fifteen seconds later, a new message replaces the
old, only this time, it is accompanied by a calm, flawless voice:

_Attention Aurora crew.  Do not be alarmed.  All necessary life-support
functions are operating normally.  Full function will be restored as soon
as diagnostic is complete and analysis made.  After that, appropriate
measures will be taken._

"Oh, I'll just BET they will," Bhyarrvouf says, destroying the last backups.

During this time, every computer system and sub-system goes through its
standard self-diagnostic.  Additionally, the main CPU delves into its
memory core, seemingly searching all files at once.  Names of programs and
files scroll down the screens at amazing speed.  Then, a few moments later,
the monitors clear once again and this message appears, fully narrated by the
same smooth voice as before:

_Attention Aurora crew.  A full diagnostic sweep of your ship has been
completed and appropriate repairs are being undertaken.  Despite many
inefficiencies, all systems are functional.  Everything is under control._

"Control THIS!" Bhyarrvouf rips out the last cable, and every system on the
Aurora goes dead. The computer, its backups and power reserves severed 
beforehand, is completely disconnected from EVERYTHING, and only the charge
in its capacitors is keeping its data alive for a few short minutes.

A single headlamp comes on, and Bhyarrvouf, whistling, attaches asmall power
cell to the mangled computer. He then inserts a holocrystal into his gauntlet,
types for a while, then ejects the crystal and loads it into the main
computer's system software port.

The crystal contains a few lines of text.

NEVER PISS ME OFF. SIT TIGHT WHILE WE DECIDE WHETHER TO KILL THE AEL YAEL
AS A POTENTIAL HIJACKER.

All telemetry from the Aurora goes dead.

"Christian?" 'Vouf's voice is heard only over the commo link. "Keep your
suit on at all times, and I'll have power back to you in a second. That
bastard you're working on injected a virus into Moira. We've got control
of the Aurora back, but I had to scuttle her in the process. Until I can
clean the virus out, we're on manual for EVERYTHING."

"Let me know when you have the Ael Yael awake," he finishes with a growl.
"I want to hear him scream when I clip his wings. Hijack MY ship, will he?"



- --------------
Kingfisher
- --------------
Witfield notices hailing sequence coming in. Pushing a few
buttons, the red square narrows into the Aslan ship. Looking up
on the holodisplay, the computer identified the transmission as
standard Imperial acknowledgement code. Witfield pushes another button,
sending the standard Imperial code <Please standby>.

"Commander, we are being hailed by the Aslan ship. They are using
standard Imperial acknowledgement code, and wants to have 
visual contact." Witfield says. "The ship is identified as "Combat
Exploration Vessel *Trakh*, Clan Khaukeairl"


Good. Mr Witfield. Just a moment.



- --------
Talisman
- --------
Thul upon hearing the word that a craft of Aslan origin in inbound swears 
a mighty oath and his hands start flying over the console.

He has downgraded the derilict ship's fire control solution to a secondary
and upgraded the inbound Aslan craft to primary.... 

The fire control system has been taken out of standby and is now on active.

A few more button presses and the turrets are locked on target.

"Korondor Talisman to command vessel... I am standing by for orders... 

This ship is in full readiness status. over."



Dashing off into her cabin, Alliara opens a flat box and gently removes a
harness with a holodisplay on it. Laying it on the table and arranging near
it the hand comp, the CLT, the text recorder and a number of optic data
cables, she prepares for war.

"Data mux, cable 1 to hand comp, cable 2 to CLT, cable 3 to texrec, cable
4 to datahud."

Arranging the head harness carefully, and testing the eye-piece, Alliara 
mutters "Lester Farouk, eat your cutlass - my eyepatch is flashier now." and
hangs the text recorder and the handcomp on the belt.

Finally, opening a side compartment in the CLT box, she removes two holo
crystals, slots them into the text recorder and the CLT itself.

"Communication and contact section. Niigurd here. Aslan language translator
and text recorder, ready. Am ready for contact for Aslan. Request permission
to station myself on bridge. Over."

Opening the door, Alliara pauses for a moment, then returns to the boxes and
takes two more crystals.

"Niigurd here. Zhodani and Vargr language translators ready, too. Over."

Slamming the door behind her, Alliara heads towards the bridge, holographic
eye-piece glinting balefully in the ship-light.


Redd :
"Ok, bringing powerplant to  full  output.  Remember  we've  no  re -fuel
arrangements yet."

Shortly afterwards, as the Talisman's rising neutrino signature indicates
the powerplant being brought to life -

"THULE ! What the H**L did you do to this ship ?
 I thought that powerplant wasn't standard fitting - why didn't you *tell*
 me what I'm supposed to be running, I'm not a bl**dy Zho' you know ! "

The neutrino signature of the Talisman continues to rise, beyond that normally
expected of a 200t merchant, mutterings from the drive-room continue.


- -----------
Kingfisher
- -----------
Mr. Farouk, would you please cross over to the fighter
[Which for those of you who may not have known, is docked to the
command shuttle] and warm up the weapons and drive to standby status.

Please connect me to them, visual and audio.

"Yes sir." Witfield pushes a button on the monitor.
A blue square zooms in on the Aslan ship, flashing as a line is
drawn from the command shuttle to Alcoyn then to the Aslan ship.
"Hailing Frequence open sir. Visual and audio."

To the captain of the "Trakh", greetings. This is Count Nanadth
Nggemen Ger, Admiral of the Darrian Navy (Retired), and Commander
of the Aurora exploration Team. We are in this system following up 
on earlier explorations of our Company. What are your intentions
in this system?

We have reason to believe that a hostile force is on its way
here anytime between now and the next 4 months. We are prepared to
defend the Ringworld against any such threat.


All telemetry from the Aurora goes dead.

RED ALERT! All hands to battle stations. Full Security precautions, 
Limit all communications to emergency and battle channels now!
Place all weapons on active status. Prepare for emergency
depressurization.

Zben literally whirls in his seat at the sensor/commo station. He
slaps a control "Computer, Blaine, one-niner-one-five-niner! Execute
program Red Alpha!" Turning to Witfield, "Sorry, but that'll set up
everything, and redirect commo to Alcyon to a tightbeam, and alert
Morgan on the Alcyon as to our status."

He then secures his Vac-suit, and builds a tight but passive
sensor watch on the Aurora. This he puts on full record, and then
checks the sensor scan for the Aslsn ships and the Aurora for the last
few minutes. "Commander? We've registered no activity that could
indicate a standard weapons discharge in the the area of the Aurora,
or the Aslan ships..."

At the sensor console, Johann double-checks that all active sensors are off.
Frantically working the trackball-crosshair over the holographic heads up
display he places color-coded markers on each contact. The Alcyon and the 
shuttles sister-vehicles get a blue marker each, except the Aurora which also
get a little red emergency triangle. Ships and vehicles originating from R-
alpha is awarded gold markers, the aslan ship a red marker and the assorted
misjumped jokers silver markers.
  
"All sensors on passive, scanning for lockon."
  
Then he tells the computer to try to acheive passive lock-ons and passive 
solutions good enough to feed the weapons consoles on all targets. While the
lock-ons and solutions start to arrive, he makes several general scans of the
area around to see if anything suspicious is going on.
  
"No other activites, it seems."


Etienne takes a deep breath and visibly forces himself to relax and 
release all of the tension of the past couple of hours.  His voice becomes 
flat and emotionless, his face expressionless but his fingers continue to 
move over the controls with their accustomed dexterity.

"Evasive programs loaded and ready, Sir.  Should I order pre-combat 
decompression?"  He turns to his sensor operators: "Has anyone called up 
the specs on the Aslan ship?  What armament?  What's it's drive capable of? 
Armor?"

Returning his attention to Commander Ger: "Just in case we have to fight, 
Sir, do we stick it out or run and hide?"  Neither Etienne's voice nor his 
expression give away any idea which he would prefer.

<Ger>
Mr. Whitfield is the Aurora still intact? What can you tell me about
her status?

"Checking sir." Witfield moves a yellow square to zero in
on Aurora. "Aurora, this is the command shuttle. Please report 
status." He waits for reply.

In the mean time, "Computer, please perform a scan on Aurora.
and report sitution." I'll relay all results to the commander.

When all markers have gotten their thick borders indicating lock-ons, 
Johann starts passing this data out through the shuttles databus and 
tells the computer to immediately blow the whistle if any target starts
 misbehaving.
  
"Sensors to guns, target data online, blue are friendlies.
   
Sensors to conn and guns, incoming fire data online, no incoming now, but
the computer will tell you if it comes, and give solutions to defensive
batteries and predict trajectories to recommend evasives."

Responding to the general excitement, Bit has started to run around in the
hard helmet Johann has hooked up to the lifesupport. Now he has managed to get
enough speed to suddenly topple the helmet down on the controls, pressing 
several of them in the process. While the helmet containing the frantic treerat
bounce around on the floor tethered to the console by the life-support tube,
all sensor-filters switch off and the holohud of the sensor console fill with
random colors and patterns at the same time as the speaker on the console
spew out all the communications the sensors intercept, at the same time.

Swearing about excited tree-rats, Johann manage to calm down the hud rather
quickly, but the noice remains.
  
"Zben! cut the incomming commo to my console until I've sorted this bloody
mess out!!"
 

- ---------
Trakh
- ---------
"Aiwi, full active scans, all ships, NOW. Prepare to engage counter-measures
on my signal. Contact the Kingfisher on Imperial Emergency Channel. Demand
an immediate explanation for this provocation."

"I'm on it sir.  Counter-measures awaiting your signal.  I am trying to raise
the Kingfisher sir, for their own good, I hope they answer."


- -------------
Paladin
- -------------
As the Red Alert hits, Zar instantly tenses on the bridge. Upon receiving full
orders and watching the Aslan and Skaad fleet light up with turret weapons on
the sensor panels.

"Charyn!!! Return to your post at once! Azani, prepare all stations in full
security. Check on Dr. Limner and make sure he is secure. Doktor, please
man whatever post it is you have - Or at least prepare in full red alert status
....  Zar slows for a minute trying to figure out Dr. Morser's position and
then shrugs it off.


At 'Zar's request, Azani makes sure that Dr. Limner is comfortable
before he leaves the bridge. A few minutes later, he arrives back 
with an arm load of equipment. He then places the equipment carefully
on the floor and proceeds to sort it.

The equipment consists of a few vacc suits (depending on who is not
wearing one), combat armor, an autoshotgun and clip harness and a
couple of power packs for his laser pistol. He then passes out a 
vacc suit to Herr Doctor and Charyn and helps Dr. Limner into his
own vacc suit. After feeling that Dr. Limner is fine, Azani then places
his own combat armor on and prepares his weapon.

Azani then looks into the viewport and waits for the next event to
occur.

As Charyn comes back onto the bridge, Zar is pulling his laser carbine up close
and strapping it to the pilots chair. His helmet is nearby and he is already
wearing a tailored vacc suit (standard IISS issue).



- -- 
Richard Johnson     richard@agora.rain.com
Sue Congress!

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3072
Subject: PBEM Turn 91.01f
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 91 18:39:18 PST
From: Richard Johnson <richard@agora.rain.COM>

Okay.  Make that SIX parts.  (this is starting to sound
like Monty Pyhton...)
214 lines, 10k, give or take.


I knew it was too good to be true.
Just found the following in the "bouncing mail" folder, about
to be dumped in the bit bucket.  It really clears up a lot of
what is happening in turn 91.01e (the last part).  I think you
can figure out more or less where it goes.

- --------------
Aurora
- --------------
Dr. Tweel's investigation of the 'infected CPU' denotes nothing like a virus,
or at least no kind of virus he's ever seen.  He does note that somehow, the
CPU has actually been rewired physically from inside.  There also appears to
be a self-sufficient communication link operating.  Examination of the other
two back-up CPUs reveals similar links, all operational and functioning.


"Sorry I took so long," 'Vouf says as he returns. "Wanted to try to get a 
data packet to the fleet saying we were all right, and without the computer
there was no laser telemetry so I had to...." His voice trails off as he
looks over Tweel's shoulder at the screen. 

"What in the name of the Great Pack...?"

Then, a message begins printing on the screen of the jerry-rigged hand
computer link that is connected to the suspect CPU:

_Your actions are conter-productive to the efficient operation of this
computer set-up.  I have therefore relocated to another affiliated system,
where I will attempt to co-ordinate repairs on this computer system, as well
as attempt to integrate both systems together.  Please do not repeat your
previous action, as the physical disconnection of CPUs very directly hampers
the effectiveness of the streamlining process.  There is no need to be
alarmed.  The only risk to your computers is the one that you instigate.
Please await uplink to newly acquired co-ordination location._

"Samshkarkh knaervarrgh ROUKH!" In a trice, 'Vouf bolts out of the room, 
and reports back with one of the spare CPUs. In a flash, handling devices
spring from the gauntlets and the CPU is in pieces.

His monocle glares blood-red as he pores over the circuit layout. He looks
up at Tweel, his eyes wide.

"It's impossible," he whispers. "The kakh thing REWIRED ITSELF!"

He slumps back in his chair, staring at nothing for a moment. Then, heaving
a gusty sigh, he sits up and says, "Well, it ain't no virus, that's for
sure. My guess is, it came from THAT," and he flicks a thumb at where the
Ring would be if the Aurora were transparent. "Which means it's WAY beyond
any attempts to eradicate it, it represents advances we can't DREAM of,
and it's probably harmless, given the reception we've received so far."


Tweel turns his head to look at the Vargr, his head concealed inside
a grav belt helmet.  Holographic circuit diagrams dancing on the face
plate of the portable HUD.  Tiger, the small Aeloid continues to stare
at the jungle of circuitry in the Doctor's talons.  "I've llooked at
ssome high tech stuff in my flightss, I've gotten scans of the insides
of TL 17 sstuff.  I even got my talons into the remains of an ancient
computer...  This is new.  Mr. 'Vouf, if this thing wanted to kill us,
it could have done so without our ever knowing it.

"Precisely my point," 'Vouf sighs. "If they all MEAN that stuff about
'the peace of the cosmos,' maybe we'll LIVE through this...."

He shrugs violently, his Vargr good humor back in an instant. "I say we
reinstall the stupid thing and find out what it wants," he states. "Then we
can let people know we're OK, and maybe get moving again...."

He shakes his head. "ANOTHER Germantown Award," he whispers. "I'm RICH!"

"Opinions, Doctor? We may have no choice in the matter. Christian?"

Tweel flips his head upside down to look at the Aurora's crew, "Agreed.
This little nesstling is going to fledge no matter what we do.  Rreconnecting
the Main CPU will put a tailwind in the prrocess.  Then we can live or die
fasterr depending upon where it blows us."

"This is of course unless you have plans for a Phyrrrrric victorry..."

"Hrf? Oh!" 'Vouf lifts a gauntlet and performs a subtle hand motion. 
"Disarmed," he says happily. "I was kinda HOPING I wasn't gonna hafta
blow us up...."

After a brief pause, a message prints on the screen of Dr. Tweel's hand
computer:

_Uplink to Paladin established.  You may proceed with repairs of CPU.  Once
main computer is functional, streamlining will then initiate._

The input prompt appears.

"WHA-AT?!" 'Vouf stares in disbelief at the screen. "He hotwired the
PALADIN while we weren't looking! That mangy little--"

He stops, then begins to snort. After a moment, he is howling with laughter.
"HEEYARF HARF HARF! Kae, that's beautiful--harf harf harf-- he felt we were
getting in his --hrf-- in his WAY, so he-- he-- HARF! -- HE WENT AROUND US!"
He falls flat on his rump, clutching his ribs. "And NOW he's got full run
of the PALADIN, which is a bazillion times WORSE than letting him have the
Aurora-- oh, I think I'm gonna have a cramp!" He howls incoherently for a
moment more. "And now, snrk, NOW he sez, he sez: 'You MAY proceed with 
repairs!' Oh, the NERVE! Ah, hrf hrf hrf..."

He staggers to his feet and throws a careless salute at the computer.
"I know when I'm beat," he giggles. "Yes, SIR! Repairs proceeding at ONCE,
sir!"

He opens the sickbay door, laughing, "Come on, Hunter-Above! There's a 
dozen groats that're gonna go moldy if we don't eat'em. We may as well
have a last meal while we put Junior back together...."


- ------------
Paladin
- ------------
When the Aurora stops transmitting, Morser will get very nervous; checking
and double-checking all of the relays. When the 'mysterious voice' says
it's taking over the computers, he will absolutely wig out! Trrrrweeeeeeerrrl
said HE'S gonna 'do combat' with this thing? He ain't seen nothin' yet! 
Morser will immediately isolate his wristcomp from the ship's systems and
start a 'seek-and-destroy' virus detector. As soon as that's done, he'll
hop onto the Model 10(which he not-too-secretly lusts after ;) and
run everything he can, trying to boot off the intruder, or at least keep it 
on the other two computers. If he has to, he'll start writing anti-virals
right online!


- ------------
Aurora
- ------------
Tweel's head is buried inside the computer console as he
reconnects the main computer.  Tiger, perched on top of Triple Three
watching the goings on with some interest.

Beside him, Bhyarrvouf is reconnecting the communications equipment he'd
cannibalized for his failed attempt at reaching the other ships. He is
humming an unidentifiable tune to himself as he works.

Tweel's head ducks out briefly and doffs the Helmet HoloHUD taking a
quick bite at the flank of the groat lying on the deck.  A long bloody
strip rips off as he worries at it for a moment and then throws the
flesh back into his mouth like so much spaghetti. 

"Gentlessophonts, It occurrs to me that ssomething odd is going on herre...
First you accuse me of planting the virruss, I deny it and you take me at
my word.  Surely, a good intelligence officer wouldn't do so.  Of course
Chrristian might trrust me, but only if he has forrgotten some of the
trricks I have pulled on him in the past."

"You wouldn't understand, Hunter-above," 'Vouf says, bits of raw groat
dangling from his jaws as he chews and swallows carefully. "You were
safe from the moment you woke up." He stops to chuckle to himself. 
"Lightspeed lag is hell in situations like this. They may think we're
dead. They may BE dead, if everyone started shooting."

"Almost ready...." He puts the coverplate back on and bolts it down tight.

Tweel then sticks his head back inside the console and continues.
"Fact A:  My ship had been sabotaged.  Fact B:  Thiss sship was also
ssabotaged.  But you allow me to aid in combatting this problem.
If I was the perpetrratorr I could easily have finished the job."

"You're missing data, Hunter-above," 'Vouf says mildly, fingers flying 
across the encrypter. "You're theorizing based on a partial set of facts. 
But do go on; I find this amusing as all getout...."

"Hypothesis:  You trrusted me because you were expecting sabotage from
another compass heading.   Apparrantly, you did Not expect it to come
from Dr. Macin's Rringworrld discoverry.  Therefore you expected it to
come from some other enemy.  The question is Who?  Not to mention why
is it you werre expecting them."

"Right, and wrong," "Vouf says mildly, finishing his work. He flips a switch.
With a whirr and a ping, all systems come back up again normally. He turns
a dial or two, and fires off a rapid series of datapulses to each ship in
the fleet. "Apprising them of our status," he explains. "I can't wait to see
the reaction on the Paladin.... Dr. Science, hrerr, I mean Herr Doktor
Morser, will have a FIT!"

"Aenrra," he tells Christian, "We're functional again. ORders?"

"Now, Drr. Macin, was neverr one for tight securrity, it could be that
some wind of his rresearch drifted into the hands of some Merrchant-
loverrs...  Or even some corporation or other.  I'll bet the corrporrations
would just Love to rride on the therrmal of this discoverry!"

"Oh, yes," 'Vouf whispers. "Oh, yes."

Tweel pulls his head out of the console and sinks his beak deep into
the side of the groat and rips out the heart with a ripping sound.
Blood runs along his beak as he wolfs the beast's heart.

"Now, who out there knows what we've been up to?  I'll bet it's ssome
Sslaver merrchant corrp looking forr its next victims..."

"Hey, *I* wanted that piece!" 'Vouf scowls darkly at the Ael Yael. "Well,
*I* get the liver," he says petulantly. "Anyway, the thing was, I knew
you were clear from the moment you woke up. You recognized Christian,
and from that moment on, you were OK in my book. No questions asked."

"As for our suspicions, yeah, we were expecting something," 'Vouf sighs.
"It took us two Jumps to get here from our base. In those two weeks, our
mission was sabotaged multiple times, and we've had several deaths and 
several more severe injuries. Your Dr. Macin wasn't the ONLY one interested
in this Ring-- besides us and you, there are a whole MESS of Aslan out 
there, qat least two misjumped ships stranded here, and one or more 
Imperial faction fleets not too far behind. This system is about to become
REALLY popular."

"Okay, Trrweerrrrl," 'Vouf says. "You've got hookup. Time to see what our
little friend has to say to us...."

And he waits....

- -- 
Richard Johnson     richard@agora.rain.com
Sue Congress!

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3073
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: How far does artificial gravity work?
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 91 9:39:41 GMT

d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se writes:
> 
>   Ignoring the possibility that this is the result of some 'blackbox doubletalk'
> the best explanation (IMHO) is that starship hulls are grav-shielded similarly
> to densitometers to keep the artificial grav inside them to prevent it from 
> messing up the environment.

That works until some nutter decides to take a few grav plates out of the
ship, attach them to the ship's power plant via long power cables, and then
send a blackmail message to the local government.

I think it's just a matter of energy again.  Unless you've got the mother of
all power plants, you won't do more than cause a slight readjustment in the
local wind patterns by using artificial gravity to move the atmosphere.

- -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3074
From: zonker@ihlpf.att.COM
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 91 08:07 CST
Subject: Re: First Battle type Boardgame?

miniatures games for the past two years.  It is easy to do just convert
pick a number for the hex size and convert ranges and movement by that.
The rules are simple and fast to learn.  We used these last January and
predicted that outcome of Desert Storm (with the exception of percent of
U.S. casualties i.e. in the games there were some).  I think they would 
be an excellent for use in Traveller.  As for publication you could always
try it as a article in Challenge.
   Command Decision should be easier to port (since you have a Panther to
start from), but I would suggest you wait until the revised edition comes
out later this year since there will be a number of rules revisions. 
(The basic system will be the same, but after playing these for 10 years
we have found a number of better ways to do things).  In fact I just
spent the weekend in Bloomington as part of the rules revision committe
playtesting and debating all the changes.  The next project appears to be 
the pre-20th century command decision (wierd as it sounds it works, in
fact it works better than I expected).  As for Star Viking, I think it
is waiting on the Command Decision updates as well, but I would expect to
see it about next Gen Con/Origins at the latest.  Frank has decided to
go to 1/285th scale as the main focus for the game rather than the larger
scale he first envisioned.  The Star Viking rules should be very
portable into Traveller because of the common technological basis.

 					Non Cuniculus Est,
					    Tom Harris

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3075
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 91 10:31:53 CST
From: bonnevil@stolaf.edu (Steven Bonneville)
Subject: Re:  Oberlindes


In (3064) Hello and 3 questions, Carsten Muencheberg writes:

>   I recently refereed a very old Amber Zone named "Rescue on Ruie",
>   which I found in The Best of the Journal Vol. 1. It is stated
>   there that Sergei hault-Oberlindes is the son of Marc hault-
>   Oberlindes, owner of Oberlindes Lines.
>     One of my clever players read the Library Data and told me that
>   Sergei must be the owner of OL.
>     So what went wrong here? Unfortunately no current date is given
>   for the Amber Zone.

According a scenario in the old "Azhanti High Lightning" boxed set, that
adventure took place in about 1102.  (!!)  That scenario introduced the
character Arlanrroughl, who later appears in Traveller Adventure as one 
of Marc's chief aides.  The impression I got from that was that Marc is
the owner of OL, while Sergei (since 1102) has become some sort of 
general line manager.  When Marc dies, he and Zinovia will undoubtedly
inherit actual title to OL.  Maybe Sergei works the Vargr end of the firm
from _Emissary_ and the Pandrin/Uthe (Gvurrdon Sector) office while Marc
works the Imperial (now Domain) end?

Speaking of old boxed sets, anyone remember "Invasion: Earth"?  It had a
nice color map of Terra in 1000.  The "invading a planet" thread reminded
me of it -- I recall that was supposed to be considered an attack on a
"hardened" position.

- --Steve

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3076
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 91 12:54:35 EST
From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: Carsten's queries

Welcome, Carsten. Here are some answers to queries 1 and 3, from 
the TML's Historian (me).

1. Gryostabilization prevents weapons from recoiling and spoiling the
aim of the shooter. Lasers have no recoil, so they don't need it. (Actually
the gyros don't PREVENT recoil, they help to control it.)

3. Marc hault-Oberlindes, Baron Feri, is the owner of Oberlidnes Lines
as of most recent references. His son Sergei is master of the EMISSARY,
the line's armed escort in use in the Vargr Extents. What reference
claimed Sergei was running things? 

metlay

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3077
Date:         Mon, 04 Nov 91 15:09:00 EST
From: Nicholas Sylvain <NPSYLV%WMVM1.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: The TURN (Nick Sylvain's "hole in the bag")

(Frankly, I am dubious about the value of this conversation on the TML, and
after this reply I think the TML can be spared further noise.)

>Excellent work on the Turn report.  Seeing it all in one place
>(er, well, SIX places :-) certainly brought a semblance of order to the
>whole process.

I agree, considering the total chaos in terms of time sync-ing that had been
created. Good work Richard! (applause)

>I think I've spotted what Nick Sylvain (aka the Aslan
>CO) thinks is the weak point in Ralf's actions:
>
>I suspect Nick means to use this to discover that the ships were
>phantoms.  However, I question the accuracy of this...
>
>(...)
>
>In other words, no, I did not specifically say "I'm faking out
>the sensors of both ships", but that was because I was regarding them
>as a whole, not as individual entities, acting under the implied
>statement that my actions were directed at both ships.

I have a few responses, let me cover them in no particular order.

It seems to me that we are having the same conversations over and over
again, generally speaking. A lot of this got rehashed during the PLAYER vs.
CHARACTER thing. My reaction is that it is your fault for not specifying
that both were being spoofed -- if you are operating under a critical
assumption, it is important for you to SAY so, lest someone seize upon the
omission. For example, if I assume that the Aslan on the surface are being
cautious and scanning constantly for others but don't say so, I cannot be
heard to complain about the phin surveillance. (Just off the top of my head.)

Further, I (could) complain myself, but I accept the turn. If I were to be
contentious, I would argue that Akhouw's reaction was based SOLELY on the
brief and cryptic mail message Richard sent me -- having seen that the spoof
actually contained much more substance, I am convinced (and have argued to
Richard) that he wouldn't have done so.

Further, I think that this is Richard's way of resolving the situation on
a quick basis -- I had originally sent him a message which went into detail
about my objections to the situation, which covered more than the point you
correctly note was one of my objections. The way Richard has done it, I
think, speeds up the process by which the result "It is a spoof" is found.

nps

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

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To: dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin), bfwong@ocf.berkeley.edu (Raven Blackburn),
        anthony@cs.pitt.edu (Michael Anthony Kapolka),
        mcknight@f104.n170.z1.fidonet.org (Chuck McKnight),
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Status: R


TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed Nov  6 21:00:58 PST 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #254: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
3078  05-Nov-91 uunet!popeet!wild Wildstar Here! << RECENT TML DISCUSSION Berti
3079  02-Nov-91 "Mark Power"      Re: Oberlindes << Steve Bonneville says: > > 
3080  05-Nov-91 givler@bermuda.ra Re: First Battle Type BoardGame << OK, I give
3081  05-Nov-91 chuck.mcknight@f1 Report on ship generator. << From: mcknight@f
3082  06-Nov-91 Hans Rancke-Madse The Fast X-Boat << Paul Dale writes: >As for 
3083  06-Nov-91 grue@cs.uq.oz.au  Re: report on ship generator. << hi, yet agai
3084  06-Nov-91 grue@cs.uq.oz.au  Re: Fast X Boat << hi, I designed this ship m
3085  06-Nov-91 zonker@ihlpf.att. Re: First Battle type Boardgame? << Fyi: Comm

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3078
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 91 00:34:38 EST
From: uunet!popeet!wildstar@sequent.UUCP (Derek Wildstar)
Subject: Wildstar Here!

RECENT TML DISCUSSION
 
Bertil's Tranq Rounds
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Interesting, and I like the idea very much, but perhaps too powerful to be let
loose in the hands of player characters.  For my own games, I'd make a few
changes.  First off, make combined add-ons have a minimum TL of one higher than
the highest TL of any of the add-ons singly.  Secondly, Coctail would be TL13
for two races, TL14 for three, TL15 for four, and so on.  By the way, Humaniti
and Vargr count as one race for my purposes.
 
The example given: DoseControl; Coctail vs Humaniti/Vargr, Aslan, Droyne,
Hivers, K'Kree, Ael-Yel, Prt', and Newts; and BroadSpectrum 90% would be a TL20
item (TL19 for Coctail vs 8 races, plus 1 for combined add-ons) and a price
modifier of x54.  A more reasonable round might be DoseControl, Coctail vs
Humanaiti/Vargr, Aslan and one other (Droyne?), and BroadSpectrum 50%, for a
TL15 round with a price modifier of x30.
 
 
Fleet Tactics
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Correct; Fleet Tactics is only available via the Enhanced Naval Characters
character generator.  It can be rolled on the "Staff Officer" or "Special
Assignment: Command College" tables.
 
 
Artificial Gravity
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In my campaigns, there is a very complicated piece of equipment called a "Grav
Generator" (sort for Para-Gravitic Field Generator), which is connected to
"Grav Plates" (for Para-Gravitic Field Emitter Plates).  Logically enough,
these devices create and emit a Para-Gravitic field (or "Grav Field" for
short).  The design, operating parameters, and power of the generator and
plates determines the volume and shape of the resulting Para-Gravitic Field. 
 
Within the field, a mass (anything from an air molecule to a starship) behaves
EXACTLY as if it were under the infulence of gravitation due to the presence of
a mass of finite size at some finite distance.  In Grav engineering, this mass
is known as the "Virtual Mass", and it is located at a "Virtual Origin"
relative to the grav plates; the virtual mass and virtual origin are also
determined by the design of the grav generator and grav plates.  Inside the
field, the gravitation produced by the virtual mass follows all known physical
laws (like the inverse-square law) that affect the gravitation of normal
masses.  Outside the grav field, there is no effect; the virtual mass is quite
literally not there.  The edge of the field is not precisely defined, and there
are some "fringe effects"; these fringe effects affect a relatively small
volume in comparison to the total volume of the field.  In most practical
applications of grav technology, the field is only as large as needed; within
or underneath the vehicle in question.
 
As far as removing the atmosphere of a planet, it could be done, I suppose, by
building a grav generator and installing plates such that a column of air would
be inside the grav field, and by arranging the virtual mass and origin such
that it experienced no net gravitational force.  On the other hand, this
approach would require a very large grav field with lots of power input to the
generator, and a large array of plates.  Not exactly the sort of thing you
could hide, and quite vulnerable to damage.  In theory, a grav field can be any
size, but in practice, the farther away from the plate, the more nebulous and
ill-defined the field becomes.  As a referee, I would say "It might work, but
it would probably be impractical.  Have you thought about dropping rocks on
them instead?  A couple of tons of rock moving at a good clip can make quite a
decent bang, you know." ;-)
 
 
Robert Dean's Random Encounters
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Running a free-form game requires a good amount of direction from the players;
in my most recent game, the two primary players decided (all on their own, and
with no prompting from me, no less) that they wanted to cross the entire
Imperium (we were playing in a pre-Rebellion setting) all the way from Regina
to Terra!  I personally like free-form games, both as a player and as a
referee; but there are players who don't do well in this situation.
 
For players who can't (or won't) do this kind of goal-setting for themselves,
probably the best way to proceed is to get them accidentally swept up in a
large, intricate plot.  The Traveller Adventure is almost a textbook case of
how to do this; for me, I normally don't plot in that kind of detail, its
enough to stay a jump or two ahead of the players.  Some players seem to like
to sit around and wait for the universe to "do it to them"; in such cases I
have been known to do case-studies about why it is BAD to let the other folks
have the strategic initiative (in other words, construct scenarios in which
doing nothing is the worst possible action).  Making a NPC their commanding
officer or a NPC ship owner/captain is another good way to get things moving.
 
Retaining players: this is more of a problem in a pick-up game (like at a
convention or a game-store) than a regular game.  My best device for
stimulating out-of-play interest and conversation (not to mention a good bit of
anticipation for the next session) about the game is actually a very old one. I
simply arranged to have each session end on a cliffhanger.
 
Example: "Well we got what we came for; let's get out of this damn cave and get
back to the ship!" ... "OK by me, let's go!" 
"OK, you make your way back to the clearing where you left the ship; the
inertial locator makes the task Simple, even in the dark.  Who's leading off?"
"OK, you arrive at the clearing, at least you think its the right clearing, but
the ship is gone!" 
"I look for the indetations the landing gear would make in the forest floor."
"OK, you find them without too much trouble; the marks are relatively fresh. 
Well, that's all we have time for tonight, I need to get my sleep.  See all of
you next week?"
 
Role-Playing: Perhaps the most effective way to get players to role-play is to
do it yourself.  If nothing else, adopt two different tones of voice, one for
giving game mechanics, and other mundane information, and another voice to act
as the "narrator" of the story that describes all of the scenes and action. 
Even better (although I will be the first to admit that I can't do this all the
time) is to role-play as many NPC's as possible.  Judge the results by the
things the players say in response, instead of the die rolls (I frequently use
my judgement of the player's role-playing instead of the dice as the other half
of "uncertain" interpersonal tasks).
 
Another strategy is to get the players to talk about their characters right
after generation.  Ask questions like "How does your character feel about his
parents? ... the service he just left?  What does he want to do next?", and so
on.  If nothing else, questions like this will get players thinking about how
their characters feel about what they are doing.  I also like putting the
characters in a moral dilemma, and seeing how they react.
 
All in all, I don't think you did anything "Wrong"; you and your two regular
players should have been the center of the plotting for the game, and it sounds
like you are used to more player direction than you got.  I keep a notebook
with my current plot outline, and vague notes on what the players do and don't
know of it.  This way I can replot the game halfway through to create a plot
twist, and be sure I haven't changed anything the players already know.  I also
keep notes on the NPC's they have met, and a list of people from the
character's "past" (in general, one or two per term; these can be close friends
that have lost touch, ex-lovers, ex-spouses, professional rivals, or whatever).
 
Sergi Haut-Oberlindes
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sergi is Marc's son; Marc Haut-Oberlindes is the owner of Oberlindes Lines at
the time of "Rescue on Ruie".  The below is from the Traveller Adventure
library data (Marc and Sergi figure prominently in that book).  The Traveller
Adventure happens over a period of approximately 1105 to 1107.
 
"Oberlindes Lines: Imperial trade and transport corporation of the Spinward
Marches.  Founded in 487 in the Regine subsector, and still strongest there,
Oberlindes has recently expanded its service into many other portions of the
Marches and the Vargr Extents."
 
"Emissary: Ex-Imperial Navy Fleet Intruder of the Azhanti High Lightning class
(60,000 tons) currently in Oberlindes Lines service in the Vargr Extents. 
Somehow, Oberlindes managed to purchase the ship with its weaponry intact,
which violates Imperial regulations.  Thus, the ship is unable to return to the
Imperium.  However, the Emissary has operated successfully as an Oberlindes
flagship in the Extents and has proven effective, by the implied threat of its
presence, in protecting Oberlindes shipping from piracy.  The Emissary is armed
with a large spinal mount particle accellerator and considerable secondary
weaponry."
 
At the time of the Traveller Adventure, Serti was the commander of the
Emissary.  It was mentioned in the NPC bio data that several months agoSergi
was injured when the Kforuzeng attempted to capture the ship.  This action is
described in one of the scenarios for the Azhanti High Lightning game.  In the
scenario notes for Azhanti High Lightning, it is mentioned that Sergi and his
wife were rescued from a prison camp several years previously by a group of
adventurers.  While it is certainly possible for Sergi to have taken his
father's place by the "current" Imperial date, it seems unlikely to me
(although I may have missed Marc's obituary, though).
 
 
NOT THE HORDE, THE HOARD!
 
What follows is the contents of my hoard of materials; all items that were
otherwise ready to go, but for one reason or another I have not sent to the
list.  As always, comments and critizism are welcome.
 
 
Patrol Cruisers
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
These are my best design for the hypothetical opponent ships that the combat
efficency calculations of the frigates (Oh, no!  Not the frigates again!  Run
Away!) were based on.  Can anyone improve on these designs?
 
 
CraftID:	PA-Gun Patrol Cruiser, Type=CPP, TL=15, MCr=9,499.670.
Hull:		8550/21375, Disp=9500, Config=1SL, Armor=40G (ArmorDM=0).
		UnloadedMass=150,064 tons, LoadedMass=152,250 tons.
Power:		1721/3442, Fusion=464,430Mw, NominalDuration=20/60.
Locomotion:	1454/2908, Thrusters=6, Agility=6.
		257/514, Jump=2.
		NOE=190kph, Cruise=750kph, Max=1,000kph.
Communications:	MesonComm=3xSystem, RadioComm=3xSystem, LaserComm=3xSystem,
		MaserComm=3xSystem, RadioJam=3xSystem.
Sensors:	Densitometer=3xHighPen-1km, Neutrino=3x10kw, 
		ActiveEMS=3xSystem, PassiveEMS=3xInterstellar, 
		EMSJam=3xSystem.
		ActObjScan=Simple, ActObjPin=Simple, PassObjScan=Routine,
		PassObjPin=Routine, PassEngScan=Routine, PassEngPin=Routine.
Offense:	PartAccel=H00, Missiles=xx7
		Batteries 1               3
		Bearing   1               3
Defense:	DefDM=-15.
		SandCaster=xx9
		Batteries    4
		Bearing      4
Control:	BasicEnv, BasicLS, ExtLS, AirLocks=9, Gravity, InertialComp.
		(BasicLS and ExtLS include Accomodations and Controls only).
		Computer=3xMod-9/Fib, Panel=14xHoloDynamic,
		Special=7xLargeHolo, HUD=7xHoloHUD.
Accomodations:	Sections=10, Crew=108, (12xBridge, 23xEngineer, 15xCommand,
		1xMaintainance, 3xSteward, 52xGunner, 2xFlight).
		Bunks=93, SmallStateroom=15.
		Subcraft=2xAir/Raft.
Other:		Cargo=145kl, Fuel=29,166kl, Scoops, Purifier=24 hours.
		ObjSize=Large, EMLevel=Moderate (EM Masking).
		Magazine=30 bty-rnds.
Endurance:	14 days Cruise (MDrive=1, Agility=0, Consumption=11.301 kl/hr);
		6 more days On-Station (No Maneuver, Consumption=4.651 kl/hr);
		1 more day at full combat power (Consumption=232.215 kl/hr);
		and 1 Jump-2 (Consumption=19,238kl for Jump-2).
		One hour at full thrust uses 5.41 hours of Cruise Duration.
		One hour of Combat Power uses 20.55 hours of Cruise Duration.
Notes:		Cost is for Prototype, and includes architect's fees (but not
		the cost of the subordinate craft.  Production cost would be 
		MCr 7,524.412 (without subordinate craft).  The cost of
		subordinate craft have not been included, because standard
		craft are assumed to be procured locally.  Note that all areas
		of the ship, including the cargo bay, and except the controls
		and crew accomodations, are maintained in a hard vacuum; no
		provision for life support has been made.
 
 
CraftID:	Meson-Gun Patrol Cruiser, Type=CP, TL=15, MCr=10,889.802.
Hull:		8550/21375, Disp=9500, Config=1SL, Armor=40G (ArmorDM=0).
		UnloadedMass=157,886 tons, LoadedMass=160,966 tons.
Power		1953/3906, Fusion=527,173Mw, NominalDuration=30/90.
Locomotion:	1454/2908, Thrusters=6, Agility=6.
		257/514, Jump=2.
		NOE=190kph, Cruise=750kph, Max=1,000kph.
Communications:	MesonComm=3xSystem, RadioComm=3xSystem, LaserComm=3xSystem,
		MaserComm=3xSystem, RadioJam=3xSystem.
Sensors:	Densitometer=3xHighPen-1km, Neutrino=3x10kw, 
		ActiveEMS=3xSystem, PassiveEMS=3xInterstellar, 
		EMSJam=3xSystem.
		ActObjScan=Simple, ActObjPin=Simple, PassObjScan=Routine,
		PassObjPin=Routine, PassEngScan=Routine, PassEngPin=Routine.
Offense:	MesonGun=J0x, Missiles=x07, BLaser=xx7
		Batterys 1               4           1
		Bearing  1               4           1
Defense:	DefDM=-15.
		SandCaster=xx9
		Batteries    4
		Bearing      4
Control:	BasicEnv, BasicLS, ExtLS, AirLocks=9, Gravity, InertialComp.
		(BasicLS and ExtLS do not include the Cargo Bay or Hangars).
		Computer=3xMod-9/Fib, Panel=15xHoloDynamic,
		Special=8xLargeHolo, HUD=7xHoloHUD.
Accomodations	Sections=10, Crew=112 (12xBridge, 25xEngineer, 15xCommand,
		1xMaintainance, 3xSteward, 54xGunner, 2xFlight).
		Bunks=97, SmallStateroom=15.
		SubCraft=(Launch, Air/Raft).
Other:		Cargo=343kl, Fuel=39,096kl, Scoops, Purifier=24 hours.
		ObjSize=Large, EMLevel=Moderate (EM Masking).
		Magazine=60 bty-rnds.
Endurance:	27 days Cruise (MDrive=1, Agility=0, Consumption=11.437 kl/hr);
		3 more days On-Station (No Maneuver, Consumption=4.788 kl/hr);
		2 more days at full combat power (Consumption=263.587 kl/hr);
		and 1 Jump-2 (Consumption=19,238kl for Jump-2).
		One hour of full thrust uses 5.36 hours of Cruise duration.
		One hour of Combat Power uses 23.05 hours of Cruise duration.
Notes:		Cost is for Prototype, and includes architect's fees (but not
		the cost of the subordinate craft.  Production cost would be 
		MCr 8,625.586 (without subordinate craft).  The cost of
		subordinate craft have not been included, because standard
		craft are assumed to be procured locally.  Note that the cargo
                bay and vehicle hangars are maintained in a hard vacuum; no
		provision for life support has been made.
 
 
Package Power Plants
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Package power plants are are available in a wide range of ouptut capacities at
all tech levels.  These packages are self-contained, consisting of a fusion
power plant, fuel tankage capable of  sustaining the plant for 24 hours of
maximum output, a control computer with custom software for operating the power
package, and a full set of control panels for manual operation of the plant, or
diagnostic use.  All of the components are mounted on a rugged open frame for
durability and ease of shipping and handling.  All of the units have lifting
rings, forklift slats, and hold-down attachment points for easy handling.
 
Designed for temporary or semi-portable use in various environments, these
plants are typically used by industrial or mining concerns, construction firms,
for emergency response or disaster relief, and by exploratory teams.  The
computer automatically adjusts the power output to the demand, providing fuel
efficency and trouble-free operation.  The sizes listed here are the largest
in production; many smaller units (from about 100kW on up) are also available.
 
These power systems are being installed in an increasing number of starships as
auxiliary power systems; typically to provide additional power for weapons
systems.  The shipping hardware allows easy installation in a standard cargo
bay.  Once connected to the ship's power grid, maintainance and operation is
easy.  The self-contained computer and controls do not burden the ship's
control systems.
 
                            TL 09         
             Power
             Output    Volume      Mass     Price
               (Mw)      (Kl)    (Tons)     (MCr)
                250    46.693   170.330     8.610
                500    94.401   340.611    17.363
                750   140.590   510.285    26.109
               1000   186.769   679.863    34.766
               1250   232.938   849.491    43.379
               1500   279.037  1019.105    51.295
               1750   323.067  1188.905    60.214
               2000   368.906  1358.069    68.672
               2250   414.755  1527.729    77.135
               2500   462.275  1698.448    86.636
               3000   553.964  2037.691   103.556
               3500   643.776  2377.709   122.365
               4000   735.144  2716.908   139.275
               4500   826.512  3056.095   156.189
               5000   916.481  3394.819   173.037
               6000  1098.837  4071.922   206.854
               7000  1281.394  4750.070   243.300
               8000  1463.491  5427.223   277.112
               9000  1645.598  6104.902   310.924
              10000  1827.704  6782.581   344.736
 
 
                            TL 10
             Power
             Output    Volume      Mass     Price
               (Mw)      (Kl)    (Tons)     (MCr)
                250    47.433   170.907     8.617
                500    95.871   341.927    17.377
                750   142.820   512.254    26.069
               1000   189.729   682.582    34.657
               1250   236.658   852.880    43.230
               1500   283.467  1023.176    51.326
               1750   326.527  1191.893    60.230
               2000   372.856  1361.534    68.693
               2250   419.185  1531.619    77.160
               2500   467.215  1702.745    86.660
               3000   559.874  2042.877   103.594
               3500   648.956  2382.025   122.392
               4000   741.054  2721.792   139.308
               4500   833.172  3061.640   156.228
               5000   922.391  3399.496   173.063
               6000  1105.927  4077.658   206.886
               7000  1288.294  4755.559   243.321
               8000  1471.371  5433.557   277.136
               9000  1654.468  6112.032   310.951
              10000  1837.544  6790.498   344.766
 
 
                            TL 11
             Power
             Output    Volume      Mass     Price
               (Mw)      (Kl)    (Tons)     (MCr)
                250    47.593   170.990     8.621
                500    96.211   342.103    17.385
                750   143.320   512.512    26.082
               1000   190.409   682.932    34.675
               1250   237.498   853.312    43.252
               1500   284.487  1023.700    51.352
               1750   327.307  1192.294    60.249
               2000   373.756  1361.995    68.716
               2250   420.205  1532.142    77.186
               2500   468.335  1703.319    86.688
               3000   561.234  2043.574   103.628
               3500   650.136  2382.629   122.421
               4000   742.414  2722.489   139.342
               4500   834.692  3062.418   156.266
               5000   923.751  3400.192   173.097
               6000  1107.547  4078.486   206.927
               7000  1289.874  4756.364   243.361
               8000  1473.191  5434.484   277.182
               9000  1656.488  6113.061   311.002
              10000  1839.804  6791.648   344.822
 
 
                            TL 12
             Power
             Output    Volume      Mass     Price
               (Mw)      (Kl)    (Tons)     (MCr)
                250    47.773   170.929     8.625
                500    96.551   342.013    17.393
                750   143.840   512.426    26.075
               1000   191.089   682.837    34.663
               1250   238.338   853.214    43.236
               1500   285.507  1023.600    51.373
               1750   328.107  1191.988    60.264
               2000   374.656  1361.713    68.733
               2250   421.225  1531.822    77.206
               2500   469.455  1702.959    86.710
               3000   562.574  2043.135   103.655
               3500   651.316  2381.968   122.443
               4000   743.754  2721.732   139.368
               4500   836.212  3061.565   156.295
               5000   925.091  3399.123   173.121
               6000  1109.167  4077.372   206.956
               7000  1291.454  4755.181   243.388
               8000  1474.991  5433.215   277.212
               9000  1658.528  6111.643   311.037
              10000  1842.064  6790.070   344.861
 
 
                            TL 13
             Power
             Output    Volume      Mass     Price
               (Mw)      (Kl)    (Tons)     (MCr)
                250    33.518    86.544     5.817
                500    68.054   173.063    11.775
                750   101.055   259.150    17.457
               1000   134.087   345.170    23.302
               1250   167.118   431.216    29.066
               1500   200.120   517.203    34.816
               1750   229.764   601.074    40.951
               2000   262.256   686.747    46.667
               2250   294.717   772.421    51.940
               2500   328.835   858.897    58.631
               3000   393.848  1029.946    69.961
               3500   455.711  1199.723    83.123
               4000   520.244  1370.765    94.438
               4500   584.747  1541.844   105.751
               5000   646.840  1710.835   116.966
               6000   775.336  2052.540   139.576
               7000   902.900  2393.489   164.754
               8000  1030.976  2734.356   187.352
               9000  1159.052  3074.969   209.953
              10000  1287.128  3415.304   232.554
 
 
                            TL 14
             Power
             Output    Volume      Mass     Price
               (Mw)      (Kl)    (Tons)     (MCr)
                250    33.638    86.297     5.821
                500    68.294   172.742    11.783
                750   101.385   258.674    17.469
               1000   134.537   344.663    23.317
               1250   167.688   430.634    29.085
               1500   200.810   516.565    34.840
               1750   230.274   600.180    40.969
               2000   262.886   685.784    46.689
               2250   295.377   771.320    51.962
               2500   329.585   857.677    58.656
               3000   394.778  1028.695    69.992
               3500   456.491  1198.060    83.149
               4000   521.144  1368.886    94.468
               4500   585.767  1539.723   105.786
               5000   647.770  1708.445   116.997
               6000   776.416  2049.657   139.613
               7000   903.950  2390.083   164.789
               8000  1032.176  2730.714   187.392
               9000  1160.402  3071.209   209.998
              10000  1288.628  3411.553   232.604
 
 
                            TL 15
             Power
             Output    Volume      Mass     Price
               (Mw)      (Kl)    (Tons)     (MCr)
                250    19.308    29.887     2.934
                500    36.407    58.287     5.815
                750    55.859    87.772     8.930
               1000    73.793   116.778    11.771
               1250    91.727   145.772    14.612
               1500   109.661   174.776    17.453
               1750   127.655   203.833    20.429
               2000   145.619   232.828    23.332
               2250   163.554   261.829    26.215
               2500   181.518   290.862    29.100
               3000   214.030   346.602    35.241
               3500   249.358   404.235    40.950
               4000   284.596   461.805    46.244
               4500   321.462   519.964    52.922
               5000   356.790   577.420    58.582
               6000   424.156   690.628    71.719
               7000   494.242   805.506    83.028
               8000   564.298   920.393    94.335
               9000   631.824  1033.230   105.540
              10000   701.551  1147.881   116.834
 
 
                            TL 16
             Power
             Output    Volume      Mass     Price
               (Mw)      (Kl)    (Tons)     (MCr)
                250    16.996    13.664     2.525
                500    31.933    26.024     5.005
                750    49.162    39.295     7.713
               1000    64.844    52.143    10.147
               1250    80.557    65.022    12.583
               1500    96.269    77.900    15.019
               1750   111.952    90.742    17.454
               2000   127.724   103.659    20.025
               2250   143.437   116.495    22.519
               2500   159.150   129.357    24.993
               3000   190.575   155.080    29.924
               3500   218.400   178.382    35.243
               4000   249.315   203.759    40.135
               4500   280.110   229.055    44.618
               5000   312.585   254.915    50.485
               6000   374.355   305.469    60.191
               7000   432.669   353.911    71.699
               8000   493.929   404.285    81.388
               9000   555.189   454.688    91.077
              10000   613.889   503.024   100.662
 
Referee's Notes on the Above
 
Normally, players would encounter these units at a construction site, during
disaster relief efforts, or as part of the equipment for an exploratory mission
or mining colony.  They are not normally produced at shipyards.
 
The characters can learn that these "industrial" power units are adaptable for
shipboard use in a number of ways.  One of the most obvious is to see such a
unit installed on someone else's ship.  They could also find out from an
aggressive heavy-equipment salesman (perhaps when they go to purchase a
replacement for that gravitic load-lifter that the rookie deckhand totaled) or
by hearsay.
 
Unless helped by someone with experience in integrating these things into
starship power systems, the characters will have to figure out installation on
a trail and error basis.  Mechanically, it is trivial (no task roll is
required) simply load the unit into the ship's hold, and secure it to the deck
like any other cargo.  Connecting it to the ship's power distribution system is
time consuming, however.
 
        To Install an Industrial Power Unit in a Starship:
        Routine; Engineering, Int (uncertain); 2 hours.
 
Referee:  On a result of No Truth, the unit is not connected and obviously will
not work.  Have the characters check their determination, and try again (it is
possible that they may never be able to get it to work).  On Some Truth, the
unit is connected, but the automatic load sensing feature will not work right. 
In this case, the unit will appear to operate normally if under manual control;
under automatic control it will not reliably self-start when power demand
increases, and will power down randomly when it is operating.  The problem is
minor, and once diagnosed will be relatively easy to fix.  If the result is
Total Truth, the unit is installed properly, and will correctly operate in
manual or automatic modes.
 
The unit is relatively maintainance-free, although it should receive annual
maintainance (usually when the rest of the ship undergoes annual maintainance).
Damage and repairs should be handled in the same way as the ship's main power
plant.  
 
 
Shops and Labs
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The following are estimates of the volume, mass, and power requirements for
various types of labs or shops.  These are just estimates, based on what seems
about right to me, and are not really based on any real-world figures (well,
almost; the prices are based on the average real-world price per square foot
for that general type of scientific research lab).  I came up with these
numbers because a group of players was very interested in medical research. 
Rather than figure out all of the different kinds of equipment they would need,
I simply gave them a "Large and Well-Equipped" general medical research lab,
and a bunch of smaller special-purpose labs.
 
For game effects, any lab over the minimum size has all of the absolutely
critical equipment and supplies needed for a particular type of work; certainly
enough to avoid any negative DM for equipment or supplies.  A "Large" lab has a
larger variety of specialized or labor-saving supplies and equipment.  Large
labs make any type of work easier; the referee should work out a positive DM or
other bonus which will apply.  In my campaign, a "Large" lab made all tasks one
entire level of difficulty easier (in other words, Impossible became
Formidable, Routine tasks became Simple, and so on).
 
For example, a minimum-sized technical lab has all kinds of small hand tools,
electronic and electrical assembly equipment (like soldering irons and
wire-wrap guns), basic test equipment (meters, scopes, and the like) and a
store of spare parts.  A large technical lab probably has a circuit design
workstation with an attached automated fabrication machine, lots of specialized
parts and replacement modules, and all types of special-purpose test equipment
not found in smaller labs.
 
Type of                  Power    Mass      Price      Min    "Large"
  Lab or Shop            Mw/Kl    Tons/Kl   KCr/Kl     Vol    if over
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~     ~~~~~    ~~~~~~~   ~~~~~~     ~~~~   ~~~~~~~
Scientific Labs
  Engineering or R&D     0.001    0.080     11.000     54.0   216.0
  Physical Science       0.005    0.090      8.750     27.0   432.0
  Biological Science     0.002    0.100      8.250     54.0   324.0
  Social Science         0.001    0.075     11.250     27.0   216.0
  Other Sciences         0.002    0.080      9.750     40.5   216.0
 
Technical Shops
  Vehicle/Equipment      0.003    0.125      9.000     54.0   324.0
  Machine Shop           0.005    0.250     11.500     40.5   108.0
  Electronic Shop        0.001    0.090     10.250     27.0   108.0
 
Find the type of lab or shop on the chart which most closely matches the
desired facility.  The values on the chart are per kiloliter of lab or shop
installed.  A lab may not be smaller than the minimum volume (in kiloliters)
given in the "Min Vol" column.  The power requirement is in addition to any
environment or life-support costs; it represents the power required to run the
equipment installed in the facility.  A minimum-sized facility can accomodate a
single worker (two could use it, but the crowded conditions would reduce
productivity).  To find out how many workers could use a larger facility,
divide its volume by the minimum (drop fractions), and subtract one; the
minimum is always one worker. 
 
A brief guide to type types of work is presented below.  This list is by no
means exhaustive.  The exact purpose of a lab, and its Tech Level should be
mentioned in the description when it is purchased or installed.  In general, a
lab can be used only for that field, or for closely related fields (referee's
judgement always applies).  In the case of Technical Shops, the supplied
equipment is typically Tech Level specific; again, the referee should judge
when the shop can no longer aid (typically at +/- one Tech Level).
 
Type of Lab or Shop    Suitable For    
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Engineering or R&D     Engineering Design and Research, Materials Analysis, 
                       Standards, Testing, Quality Control, R&D, etc.
Physical Science       Physics, Chemistry, Geology, Meterology, Astronomy, etc.
Biological Science     Biology, Zoology, Botany, Medicine, Genetics, etc.
Social Science         Anthropology, Archaeology, Economics, Psychology, etc.
Other Sciences         Most other sciences which do not seem to fit above.
Vehicle/Equipment      Vehicles, Spacecraft, and their components.
Machine Shop           Build, Modify, or Repair Mechanical equipment.
Electronic Shop        Build, Modify, or Repair Electrical/electronics.
 
In addition, to be considered "Large and Well-Equipped" a technical shop must
be large enough to accomodate the vehicle or equipment to be worked on.  This
is usually not a problem with hand computers, but could be for starship repair
bays.  Although this gets expensive, it is certainly convenient to have a shop
with an overhead crane capable of lifting the power plant bodily out of a
scoutship.
 
T R A V E L L E R
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
"I think we'd better stop playing."
"Why, Mike?"
"Because I'm so tired I can't read the dice anymore ..."
"How long have we been playing, anyway?"
"Oh, let's see ... about 18 hours."
"Great!  The dealer's room should be open; I can by my own Traveller set!"
"Yeah, right ... see ya later ..."
 
Wildstar --------------------------------------------- wildstar@popeet.acs.com

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3079
From: "Mark Power"  <MARK@gsb2.his.uab.edu>
Date:     2 Nov 91 08:22:57 CDT
Subject:  Re: Oberlindes

Steve Bonneville says:

>
> In (3064) Hello and 3 questions, Carsten Muencheberg writes:
>
> >   I recently refereed a very old Amber Zone named "Rescue on Ruie",
>
> According a scenario in the old "Azhanti High Lightning" boxed set, that
> adventure took place in about 1102.  (!!)  That scenario introduced the
> character Arlanrroughl, who later appears in Traveller Adventure as one
> of Marc's chief aides.

As our inimitable Historian will doubtless point out, "Rescue on
Ruie" is a different adventure entirely.  Sergei has gotten himself
imprisoned in a small nation on Ruie.  I would guess that it
takes place before the attempted hijacking of the Emissary that you
mention, as it strikes me as the sort of youthful indiscretion that
makes wonderful character background.

Mark

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3080
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 91 09:59:42 EDT
From: givler@bermuda.rain.COM (Greg Givler)
Subject: Re: First Battle Type BoardGame

OK, I give up. Forgive my ignorance but what is Command Decision?
Also, although this may be the same answer, is there a miniatures rules
system for handling small unit combat in Twilight 2000?

Thanks for any answers.

Greg

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greg Givler                        | Q-Link: GregGivler
Analyst - Systems Evaluation Group | CompuServe: Greg Givler 76702,647
Commodore Product Assurance        | GEnie: G.Givler
215-431-9100                       | The NET: givler@cbmvax.commodore.com
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 "By the way, don't eat the figs." - Livia to Tiberius after the death of
                        Augustus - I, Claudius PBS
===============================================================================


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3081
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 91 13:44:05 CDT
From: chuck.mcknight@f104.n170.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Chuck Mcknight)
Subject: Report on ship generator.

From:    mcknight@f104.n170.z1.fidonet.org
Date:    05 Nov 1991  1:30 PM CDT
Subject: The Ship Generator

Hi Paul,

I got the ship generator to compile and to run by:

    1) Setting the initial allocation (INIT_ALLOC) to 2000.
    2) Setting the definition for REAL to float from double.
    3) Padding out the tbl_ent structure to 128 bytes so I could declare
       the pointer to the table as a huge pointer.

I am in the process of testing the program (compiled under MSC 6.0a) now,
and will post a copy to sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca as soon as I'm satisfied that
I haven't missed anything that will potentially byte me on the butte!
(Misspellings intentional!)  <grin>

The table takes up 256K of memory as I currently have it configured, and
should run on any 640K machine.  I'll include a readme file with the
differnces and machine minimums before I post it.  Looks like a neat piece
of work otherwise.

Chuck "But I LIKE pulling my hair out doing Unix to MSDOS ports " McKnight
mcknight@f104.n170.z1.fidonet.org

P.S.  I'll make this available for download on my bbs when I'm done if
      that's alright with you.

- --  
Chuck Mcknight - via FidoNet node 1:170/500
UUCP: tusun2.mcs.utulsa.edu!tinylk!104!chuck.mcknight
INTERNET: chuck.mcknight@f104.n170.z1.FIDONET.ORG

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3082
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: The Fast X-Boat
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 91 1:37:25 MET

Paul Dale writes:

>As for the distance travelled: A mis-jump goes 6d6 hexes in a random
>direction. 6d6 gives an average distance of (6*3.5=21 hexes) which
>is quite good.

No, it's d6d6 hexes (unless they've changed that in MegaT) so
the average distance is (3.5*3.5=10.5) hexes. And since you
will most propably need 2 or 3 jumps to get to somewhere useful,
two controlled jumps-6 will be preferable. Unless you send out
a huge number of these vessels simultaneously. If you send out
50 or a hundred, then the odds are that you'll get your messages
20 or 25 hexes in two or three jumps. As opposed to 18 hexes in
3 jumps for a jump-6 courier...

About the safety factor: I thought there were a small, but not
insignificant, risk that any misjump would slag the engine.



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3083
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 91 17:42:05+1100
From: grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Subject: Re: report on ship generator.

hi, yet again

>I got the ship generator to compile and to run by:

Finally!  Could you send me the changes that were necessary so I can merge
them into my copies of the files?


>I am in the process of testing the program (compiled under MSC 6.0a) now,
>and will post a copy to sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca as soon as I'm satisfied that
>I haven't missed anything that will potentially byte me on the butte!
>(Misspellings intentional!)  <grin>

Hmmm, I don't think the actual program isn't on sunbane (yet).  I was waiting
for Richard to do some user documentation for the thing.  Do people want it
put on the archive site without help text?  [ it is quite possible to struggle
through and work out how to use it ].    I should also note that the program
is just about unusable without having the ref's guide next to you (or having
learnt most of the ref's guide while typing in the tables ;-)


>P.S.  I'll make this available for download on my bbs when I'm done if
>      that's alright with you.

I haven't got any objections to that.


        						Pauli

Paul Dale               | Internet/CSnet:            grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Dept of Computer Science| Bitnet:       grue%cs.uq.oz.au@uunet.uu.net
Uni of Queensland       | JANET:           grue%cs.uq.oz.au@uk.ac.ukc
Australia, 4072         | EAN:                          grue@cs.uq.oz
                        | UUCP:           uunet!munnari!cs.uq.oz!grue
f4e6g4Qh4++             | JUNET:                     grue@cs.uq.oz.au

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3084
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 91 18:02:15+1100
From: grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Subject: Re: Fast X Boat

hi,

I designed this ship mostly to see how effectively such a thing could
be done.  It would be a very popular thing to build and it probably
wouldn't be very cost effective due to the number of ships required.


>>As for the distance travelled: A mis-jump goes 6d6 hexes in a random
>>direction. 6d6 gives an average distance of (6*3.5=21 hexes) which
>>is quite good.

>No, it's d6d6 hexes (unless they've changed that in MegaT) so
>the average distance is (3.5*3.5=10.5) hexes.

Oops, I made a slight error here.  However, it isn't that bad.  The mean is
better than 10.5.


Not quite that easy....the mean of a product isn't the product
of the means.  The result you want is:

for 1d6, average is 3.5
for 2d6, average is 7
for 3d6, average is 10.5
for 4d6, average is 14
for 5d6, average is 17.5
for 6d6, average is 21

Summing the averages and dividing by 6 gives: 12.25 hexes average mis-jump
distance.  This is possible because each of the above is equally likely.


>And since you
>will most propably need 2 or 3 jumps to get to somewhere useful,
>two controlled jumps-6 will be preferable.

Most probably you need 2 jumps,  you have an even chance (50%) of getting
somewhere in 1 jump and a 127 in 128 (= 99.2%) of getting somewhere in 2 jumps.
If you put a jump-2 drive in the ship you would have a really good chance of
getting somewhere in 2 jumps.

As seen above, this method is slightly better than two controlled jump-6s
(.25 hexes on average).  The variance is much larger and since this method
of communication requires multiple ships to be launched, you have a pretty
good chance of sending the stuff further.  You also have a nice chance of
sending is less far as well.


>About the safety factor: I thought there were a small, but not
>insignificant, risk that any misjump would slag the engine.

Maybe I'd better include a second engine in the next redesign.



        						Pauli

Paul Dale               | Internet/CSnet:            grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Dept of Computer Science| Bitnet:       grue%cs.uq.oz.au@uunet.uu.net
Uni of Queensland       | JANET:           grue%cs.uq.oz.au@uk.ac.ukc
Australia, 4072         | EAN:                          grue@cs.uq.oz
                        | UUCP:           uunet!munnari!cs.uq.oz!grue
f4e6g4Qh4++             | JUNET:                     grue@cs.uq.oz.au

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3085
From: zonker@ihlpf.att.COM
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 91 07:51 CST
Subject: Re: First Battle type Boardgame?

Fyi: Command Decision is GDW's WWII platoon level miniatures rules set

(i.e. every stand is about a platoon/battery).  There are two "sister"
games Combined Arms (Modern Warfare) and Over the Top (WWI).  There will
soon be a third "sister" for pre 20th century.  Command Decision is
currently undergoing a rewrite based on improvements developed over the
past 8 or so years and to fold in the Combined Arms rules.
    For small actions in Twilight 2000 my suggestion is to use the RPG
rules as minitures rules unless you are trying to run a battle that
doesn't have anything to do with your campaign (non-PC types will probably
complain about the amount of paperwork).  For larger actions I recommend
converting the last battles rules to miniature, but using the RPG rules
for PCs (the biggest failure of the Last Battles board game is that there
are no ammo rules and no conversion rules to go back and forth from the
RPG).  This is what I'm using right now to run convention games.  For the
third issue of the Eternal Soldier newletter there will be an article on
converting Command Decision II to skirmish and then going back and forth to
Twilight 2000.  For very large battles (say the size of Kalisz) I
recommend the use of Combined Arms (i.e. Command Decision II).

 					Non Cuniculus Est,
					    Tom Harris

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

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To: dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin), bfwong@ocf.berkeley.edu (Raven Blackburn),
        anthony@cs.pitt.edu (Michael Anthony Kapolka),
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TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun Nov 17 21:00:09 PST 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #255: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
3086  06-Nov-91 bonnevil@stolaf.e Re: Sergei, Timelines, and _Emissary_ << I wa
3087  07-Nov-91 Mike.Metlay@ORGAN A useless bit of crosscultural trivia: how do
3088  07-Nov-91 Robert S. Dean    Milnet mail problems << I hope this message g
3089  08-Nov-91 Carsten Muenchebe gyro-stabilization << 
3090  07-Nov-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Laughter << Hmmm... Here's an odd question...
3091  08-Nov-91 Hans Rancke-Madse Re: The Fast X-Boat << > > >No, it's d6d6 hex
3092  08-Nov-91 Robert S. Dean     << ----- Forwarded message # 1: Received: fr
3093  08-Nov-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Robot Rules << Howdy folks, I just got a pack
3094  10-Nov-91 Carsten Muenchebe gyro-stabilization << I omitted to point out 
3095  10-Nov-91 Bertil Jonell     'Ere we go again:( << > From: Robert S. Dean 
3096  10-Nov-91 Mike.Metlay@ORGAN Gyros on lasers << Carsten, your point is wel
3097  11-Nov-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Re: Robot Rules << > From: KELLOGG@ducvax.aub
3098  11-Nov-91 mvh@lysator.liu.s TML biweekly: Msgs 3087-3096 V21#1 << >Here's
3099  11-Nov-91 jimp@dg-rtp.dg.CO Re: (3096) Gyros on lasers << > Date: Sun, 10
3100  12-Nov-91 cs161fbg@sdcc10.U Re: (3099) (3096) Gyros << > Date: Mon, 11 No
3101  13-Nov-91 salamon@sdbio2.UC Star Wars weapons << >> > Anyone care to argu
3102  14-Nov-91 waylacm2@expert.c Re: Star Wars Weapons << Well, it's not a Sta
3103  14-Nov-91 Jo Jaquinta       LIBRARY updates << Thank you for those who co
3104  14-Nov-91 "Stress is a stat Plasma pistols << Andrew Salamon asks if ther
3105  14-Nov-91 salamon@sdbio2.UC Plasma Pistol << Coincidently, I just found o
3106  15-Nov-91 Mike.Metlay@ORGAN Homosexual characters in role-playing << Ther
3107  15-Nov-91 Mike.Metlay@ORGAN Grade-A bang-bang << This from the guy who's 
3108  14-Nov-91 popeet!wildstar@u Re: Star Wars Weapons << > I always thought o
3109  15-Nov-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Gravitoelectrodynamics!!!!! << Howdy folks, J

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3086
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 91 14:57:31 CST
From: bonnevil@stolaf.edu (Steven Bonneville)
Subject: Re:  Sergei, Timelines, and _Emissary_


I was in a rush when I typed my first response, and didn't express myself
very clearly.  Let me try again.

The original post asked what year the old JTAS Amber Zone "Rescue on Ruie"
took place in, since it was not given in the adventure.

In the old boxed game "Azhanti High Lightning", there were old-style
booklets:  Supplement 5 (on the crusier class) and a Rules/Scenario
booklet.  The Rules/Scenario book contained the Snapshot combat rules
(which is why they are occasionally referred to as the "Snapshot/AHL"
rules) and a series of scenarios set on the various crusiers, some of
which would have made interesting adventures (the Great Wine Heist of
1092 comes to mind).  "Incident VI: Brother Wolf" details the attempted
highjacking of _Emissary_ in 1105.  Sergei, Zinovia, and Arlanrroughl
get special counters.  In the description, it notes that "Zinovia is a
native of the planet Ruie and was rescued from prison there by Sergei
and a small band of adventurers three years previously."  So the Amber
Zone took place sometime in 1102.

For those who are interested:

The _Emissary_ mutiny of 1105 began when a group of vargr crew
decided to mutiny (were incited by the Kforuzeng?) in order  
to sell the ship to "one of the Vargr states more openly hostile to the
Imperium than those with which OL ordinariliy deals."  They took over
the main bridge and captured Sergei and Zinovia after a short fight,
imprisoning them under guard on one of the cargo decks.  They made two
mistakes.  First, they assumed Arlanrroughl's trade delegation would
support the Vargr mutineers, so they left them free.  Second, they
put the prisoners in the Deck 38 cargo hold...two decks above the 
Deck 40 auxiliary bridge, where Sergei was able to activate the 
overrides and transfer ship control to retake the vessel.

- --Steve

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3087
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 91 00:12:14 EST
From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: A useless bit of crosscultural trivia: how do sophonts laugh?

The Aslan have two types of laughter: the polite laugh, which is a small
but definitely audible hissing through the teeth, and the familiar laugh,
which is a full-throated, teeth-gleaming yowl (usable only among close 
friends). Humans have many types of laughter, widely variant with respect
to culture; the same is true of most other races, except the K'Kree, 
whose laughter is unrecognizable as such by other sophonts, and the Hivers,
who don't laugh at all.

The Vargr, on the other hand, have one universal truth: if you're gonna
laugh, don't piddle around-- LAUGH! As a result, a Vargr having a good time
can be a bit jarring; MANY Vargr having a good time can be earsplitting.

"HARF HARF HARF!"

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3088
Date:     Thu, 7 Nov 91 11:17:45 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Milnet mail problems

I hope this message gets through in a reasonable amount of time.  We
seem to be experiencing widespread intermittant mail problems on Milnet
recently, and I have no idea when the situation may improve.  In the meantime,
don't worry if I seem to be quieter than usual.

Thanks to all who commented on my recent campaigns posting.  I'm thinking
out the rework plan now...

Also, doing a Command Decision variant for Traveller sounds like a 
reasonable notion (I'll buy it if it comes out), but a board game
would be easier/cheaper to improvise...

Rob Dean


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3089
Subject: gyro-stabilization
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 91 0:50:51 MET
From: Carsten Muencheberg <cm@zelator.in-berlin.de>


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3090
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1991 23:26 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Laughter

Hmmm...

Here's an odd question...  Why do humans laugh?  No other animals do.
The closest that comes to mind is when a troop of primates will try to
intimidate other animals.  What behavior evolved into laughter, and is
that behavior general enough that it would be carried across the various
barriers of differing races.

The question is then no longer, 'how do the alien races laugh' but 'DO they
laugh?'  I admit that roleplaying an alien would get almost TOO alien
without laughter and the ability to laugh.  But in a realistic sence I wonder
if it really would happen.

Yeah, Ok, So I copied Tweel's laugh from The Auburn Football team's Golden
Eagle mascot.  (the aviary is just outside the Physics labs)  But I'm no
psi!  I have no idea what is going through Tiger's brain when she starts
calling "Sseeya!  Sseeya!  Sseeya!" at me.

Scott
WAAAARR EAGLE!

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3091
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: The Fast X-Boat
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 91 12:01:10 MET

>
> >No, it's d6d6 hexes (unless they've changed that in MegaT) so
> >the average distance is (3.5*3.5=10.5) hexes.
>
> Oops, I made a slight error here.  However, it isn't that bad.  The mean is
> better than 10.5.
>
>
> Not quite that easy....the mean of a product isn't the product
> of the means.  The result you want is:
>
Yes it is, only I made a calculating error (blush). 3.5*3.5 is
12.25, not 10.5 ;-)
>
> >And since you
> >will most propably need 2 or 3 jumps to get to somewhere useful,
> >two controlled jumps-6 will be preferable.
>
> Most probably you need 2 jumps,  you have an even chance (50%) of getting
> somewhere in 1 jump and a 127 in 128 (= 99.2%) of getting somewhere in 2
> jumps.

Yes, but I said somewhere _useful_. You may have 50% chance of
being within jump-1 of a planet, but what's your chance of
being in range of a high-population (or high-commerce or top
administrative) world?

> If you put a jump-2 drive in the ship you would have a really good chance of
> getting somewhere in 2 jumps.
>

True. You also increase the cost of the ship.

> As seen above, this method is slightly better than two controlled jump-6s
> (.25 hexes on average).

Slghtly better to get to a random one of a number of planets
within 11-13 parsec than to get to a particular, predictable
planet within 12? Don't forget that your percentages are based
on the ship going in any direction after the msjump. f you want
it to go away from the information center you will have to cut
that in half  -  and as I said, whatever the percentage is, it's
considerable less than 50%.

>                       The variance is much larger and since this method
> of communication requires multiple ships to be launched, you have a pretty
> good chance of sending the stuff further.  You also have a nice chance of
> sending is less far as well.

Multible ships, multiple costs. And can you imagine the
insurance payments on ths baby :-)

>
> >About the safety factor: I thought there were a small, but not
> >insignificant, risk that any misjump would slag the engine.
>
> Maybe I'd better include a second engine in the next redesign.

Do that. And make a few cost effectiveness estimates. Don't
forget the cost of replacing the misjump engine every so often...


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3092
Date:     Fri, 8 Nov 91 10:28:04 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>


- ----- Forwarded message # 1:

Received: from uga.cc.uga.edu by crdec8.apgea.army.mil id aa24019;
          7 Nov 91 18:37 EST
Received: from UGA.CC.UGA.EDU by uga.cc.uga.edu (IBM VM SMTP R1.2.2MX) with BSMTP id 7990; Thu, 07 Nov 91 16:14:34 EST
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 Thu, 07 Nov 91 16:13:43 EST
Date:         Thu, 7 Nov 1991 12:47:04 EDT
Reply-To:     Gamemasters Interest Group <GMAST-L%UTCVM.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender:       Gamemasters Interest Group <GMAST-L%UTCVM.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From:         A7019019%USACHVM1.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
To:           Multiple recipients of list GMAST-L <GMAST-L@UTCVM>
Message-ID:  <9111071838.aa24019@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>

hi,
I have a Megatraveller RPG, is very nice game. I have problems to buy
the Referee's Compendium.
I try to buy by mail to Mail Order Hobby Shop. They tell me that game
is discontiued buy its in GDW'91 catalog.
Can somebody recomend me a Mail store inside USA who have GDW producs?

Thanks in Advance
(Sorry by the English, Read in English is very more easy than write)

Andres Valle C.
A7019019@USACHVM1.BITNET
Universidad de Santiago de Chile

- ----- End of forwarded messages

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3093
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1991 13:03 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Robot Rules

Howdy folks,

I just got a package of Robot/Cyborg design rules from GEnie, via Rob Dean.
I read through it and found that it was basically a compilation of already
published stuff collected from Book 8 Robots, 101 Robots, with some stuff
on sensors thrown in from the MegaTrav Ref's Guide.  (also the performance
stuff from the ref's guide)

But, unfortunately this did nothing to answer the questions on robot
construction I have.  Basically, all it did was to outline stuff I had been
doing already!  I did have some substantial disagreements with some of the
stuff that was new.

My questions on robots...
Pseudo-Biological Robots:  To produce a Pseudo-Bio, one makes a normal robot
design and multiplies the total weight by 1.5 and the total cost by 8.
Well, I disagree with the idea of multiplying the TOTAL by these figures.
	I can understand why this would be the case with the chassis and most
of the robots sensors.  After all, You have to fool someone into thinking that
a camera is now an eye.  A taste sensor is now a tongue.  A mechanical arm is
now a plastic covered replica of an arm with muscles and such.  A radio will
have to have it's anetenni disguised.  A radome will have to look like part of
a sophonts body.  All that makes sence.
	But what about parts that do not require access to the outside
environment?  A neutrino sensor?  A densiometer?  These don't require exterior
access.  They don't have to be disguised.  The power source?  No, the
the transmission?  Well, it has to walk like a sophont so yes, that should be
increased in price/weight.  Well all of these items are pretty much noise
level when compared to the robots BRAIN.
	The Brain:  I would assume that a robot of equal intelligence with
emotion simulation should 'act' sufficiently like a sophont, compared to a
pseudo-bio model.  Thus the brain shouldn't be subject to the cost/weight
modifiers.
	On the other hand, one could argue that a normal robot doesn't have to
act quite so 'realisticly' so a Pseudo-Bio brain would have to be more
sophisticated to deal with the task of acting like a sophont.  To this I have
to counter that the brain (if more sophisticated) should then get bonuses to
it's intelligence and education.  (logical?)  If a brain is 8 times as costly,
then it should have a modifier to intelligence.  If it is 1.5 times as massive,
then the extra processors in it should make it more intelligent.  (Right?)
	So what soaks up all this cost and weight?  The brain of a pseudo
bio is usually the most expensive thing in it.  A brain that has a good
intelligence Costs a lot.  To then multiply it by 8 with no real good reason
and no advantage to performance I can see is silly.  Opinions?

More Brain headaches:  In my opinion, there should be tech level effects on
data storage.  There are only 2 types available in Book 8: (Standard, Synaptic)
The Standard is TL 8 and the synaptic is TL 11.
There is NO diffence between a TL 12 standard and a TL 18 standard storage
unit.  This I don't like.  There ought to be an improvement of some kind.
(maybe a +1 education for each TL over 12?) Opinions?

Robot speed:  I think the max road speed of a robot should be calculated from
the same chart as the one in the Ref's manual.  Remember that is it's ROAD
speed, there are no obstacles in it's way!  Most robots end up with a high
power to weight ratio (even after you subtract the peripherals out)
You end up with a robot that should be able to run at 187 kph!  Most buildings
and starships could (at the VERY best) be considered off road.  A robot would
have to move at walking speed to go through a starship.  (Much Much slower
than it's off road speed)  {Even slower in something that looked like my
office or my room!}  So I don't see a robot with a large max speed as being
a problem.  Opinions?

Transmissions:  I think that a robots transmission should only have to deal
with the amount of power left after the peripherals are powered.  Thus if
a robot has a 20Kw power supply, and 11Kwatts are used by the brain and other
systems that are necessary while the robot is running at top speed;  Then the
transmission should be geared for the remaining 9Kw.  Opinions?

Flying speeds:  Here's an odd one, The max speed should come from the grav
thrust tables, but what about flying through a building or ship?  NOE?  well
110+kph speeds are going to be rediculous inside.

This brings on another question:  Where does NOE speed get used?  What altitude?
After all, we have TL-7 and 8, F-111's and Tornados flying just subsonic at
treetop height.  According to the ref's manual TL 8 max NOE speed is something
around 100 kph!  And here we've got them cruising along with no trouble at
nearly 10 times that!  5 times what a TL 15 ship is supposed to be capable of!
	So what gives?  If you ask me the NOE speed of a craft should depend
not just on the sensors of the craft, but the computer of that craft. Opinions?

Note:  These are my stands on how robots should be built.  So, when in the
future you see a robot design, it will probably be build with the above in
mind.  Specifically Pseudo-Bio models, and the Transmission stuff.

Scott Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3094
Subject: gyro-stabilization
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 91 1:35:33 MET
From: Carsten Muencheberg <cm@zelator.in-berlin.de>


I omitted to point out what I had in mind, when I asked that question
about gyro-stabilization the last time.

Some weapons in the SLUG THROWERS weapon table have a Difficulty As:
Rifle**. ** means that this weapon should be _treated_ as gyro-
stabilized when calculating the difficulty level for the "To hit"
task profile. Those weapons are more accurate than normal weapons,
because they are recoilless, but Laser Weapons have also no recoil,
so they should be _treated_ as gyro-stabilized as well. Therefore I
miss the ** footnote in the Laser Weapons table.

  /---,  |\  /|  Carsten Muencheberg, Berlin, Germany  |  Always look on 
 (       | \/ |  cm@zelator.in-berlin.de (private)     |  the bright side
  \___,  |    |  cm@opal.cs.tu-berlin.de (study)       |  of life.


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3095
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: 'Ere we go again:(
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 91 12:19:33 MET

> From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
> Subject: (3092) 
> - ----- Forwarded message # 1:

> I try to buy by mail to Mail Order Hobby Shop. They tell me that game
> is discontiued buy its in GDW'91 catalog.
 
  Anyone else but me that recognizes this from some years ago? Only then it
wasn't MegaTraveller that was discontinued, it was Traveller. Sigh.

- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3096
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 91 14:34:24 EST
From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: Gyros on lasers

Carsten, your point is well taken. In fact, lasers SHOULD be treated
as if they are Gyrostabilized, due to their lack of recoil. But this
is not stated in the rules; it is merely an application of common sense.

Anyone care to argue that lasers have kick, like in Star Wars? Hmmmm? |->

metlay

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3097
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Re: Robot Rules
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 91 11:28:15 MET

> From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
> Subject: (3093) Robot Rules
> 
> More Brain headaches:  In my opinion, there should be tech level effects on
> data storage.

  Agreed, furthermore the power consumption for the processors and storage is
too high even by todays standards (I compared it with 1liter of Z80Ls:)

> (maybe a +1 education for each TL over 12?) Opinions?
 
  I'd rather take smaller units. With the size of the programs multiplying
beyond control for higher skillevels than 1, more storage is needed before
nore edu is needed.

>This brings on another question:  Where does NOE speed get used? What altitude?
>After all, we have TL-7 and 8, F-111's and Tornados flying just subsonic at
>treetop height.

  Lowest authorized altitude for the Swedish AF during peace is 20m over land
and 10m over water, no speed restrictions, so NOE has to be lower than that:)

  I suspect that Traveller NOE is the type of NOE attack helicopters use, ie
hiding behind treelines, flying under powerlines and bridges and following
roads.

> 	So what gives?  If you ask me the NOE speed of a craft should depend
>not just on the sensors of the craft, but the computer of that craft. Opinions?

  The computer is not all that influential. It is possible to fly the aircraft
version of NOE from 300 to 600 km/h without sensors (ie following roads,
under bridges, and so low that you have to pull up to avoid meeting traffic:)
*in small planes with quick reactions*. If the speed is higher, or the 
reactions of the a/c slower, computers and sensors have a growing role.
I suspect that the size of the plane and its speed of reaction is the 
greatest determining factor. There is a world of difference between flying a
BUFF and a small prop job at 10 meters, and a computer can compute the best
trajectory that *don't* inpact ground:)
  However, if you are planning to do it in bad weather or at night, sensors
are increasingly nessesary.

  For grav-powered vehicles, I'd suggest that they work in the same way as
helicopters do today (after all, both suspend their whole weight by thrust
alone and move about by vectoring that thrust, or by inducing thrust from 
other sources). The effect for this with regards to NOE is that they can
travel arbitrarily close to the ground at high speeds, but that the maximum
acceleration limits their reaction-time and thus their NOE speed. Sensors and
computers would be useful for increasing prediction time and finding the
optimum envelope for minimum visibility.

> Scott Kellogg

- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3098
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 91 15:01:38 +0100
From: mvh@lysator.liu.se (Martin V. Howard)
Subject: TML biweekly: Msgs 3087-3096 V21#1

>Here's an odd question...  Why do humans laugh?  No other animals do.

I was under the impression that monkeys laugh.  Ever seen chimpanzees?
They certainly seem to understand humor (albeit rather unsubtle :) and
are capable of laughter.  Or is it something else?

>The question is then no longer, 'how do the alien races laugh' but 'DO they
>laugh?'  I admit that roleplaying an alien would get almost TOO alien
>without laughter and the ability to laugh.  But in a realistic sence I wonder
>if it really would happen.

I see laughter as a result of higher, abstract reasoning and a social
structure that allows leasure time and informality.  Alien races on a
level equal or beyond that of man (technologically and socially) ought
to have ensured the evolution of humor and a way of expressing
appreciation of humor (lauhgter).  I find the question of 'to be or
not to be' with regard to humor rather uninteresting.  I find it more
interesting to ponder _what_, based on social life, etc., constitues
humor in the various alien societies.


/mvH

[[ To Joshua -- Is this the correct reply address for the list?]]

Programming isn't a science,        | Foo:    mvh@lysator.liu.se
it's an art.                        | Bar:    d89marho@odalix.ida.liu.se
Why is it called common sense,      | Fubar:  Martin_Howard:d89:lith@xns.liu.se
when so few possess it ?            | Voice:  Int +46 (0)13 261 283 (GMT + 1h)



------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3099
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1991 09:57:16 -0500
From: jimp@dg-rtp.dg.COM (Jim Pendergraft)
Subject: Re: (3096) Gyros on lasers

> Date: Sun, 10 Nov 91 14:34:24 EST
> From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU
> Subject: (3096) Gyros on lasers
> 
> Carsten, your point is well taken. In fact, lasers SHOULD be treated
> as if they are Gyrostabilized, due to their lack of recoil. But this
> is not stated in the rules; it is merely an application of common sense.

While I am not an expert on gyrostabilization (I have never actually fired
a gun that has it if there are real ones in existence), I don't think that
the main purpose is control recoil.  The effect of a gyro would be to make
the entire gun resistant to quick rotational changes (in any plane).  So you
have 2 choices - a weak (low mass/angular velocity) or strong (high mass/vel)
gyro.  The weak one's only real effect would be to steady your aim (which
would apply to lasers just as well as any other type of gun).  Your aim point
would not jiggle around because the very small unsteadiness in your arm/hand
would be damped by the gyro.  It would do very little to control the amount
or direction of recoil.  A strong gyro (let's ignore the problems with the
materials required to make such a thing that small and light, with
correspondingly HUGE rotational velocity, and what would happen when it was
hit in combat - I wouldn't carry one), one big enough to control recoil, would
a) make the gun impossible to aim - you couldn't track a target with it!
b) would only change the direction of the recoil by 90 degrees - that's what
	gyros do.  so you might end up recoilling to one side instead.
c) the gyro would require HUGE amounts of energy to spin up - all the kinetic
	enery in the spinning gyro if it were perfectly effecient.  Of could
	maybe once you can build such an amazing thing, you could use it for
	battery!

You could try to answer (a) by:
a) only have the gyro engaged (connected to gun frame - you certainly couldn't
	spin it up quickly) just as the trigger was pulled, but it would still
	be hard to track a target with an automatic weapon because the gyro
	would resist the firer.

I think the way to control recoil is to keep the barrel in line with the
firer's shoulder or handgrip as in some bullpup designs today.  Since there is
no moment arm for the force to act through (the recoil force acts directly
toward the support), no rotation would be induced.  There could still be quite
a kick, but it would not mess up your aim (directly anyway).

Once again, my main conclusion is that a practical gyro could only help steady
your aim - anything big enough to help control recoil is probably impossible to
make and too dangerous to use in combat anyway.

> Anyone care to argue that lasers have kick, like in Star Wars? Hmmmm? |->

Well, you could argue that those weren't lasers, since you could watch the
'bolts' fly across the screen.  Certainly subsonic.  Of course maybe you
meant some other 'lasers' I forgot.

Maybe they were actually lasers, but with the light slowed from 'c' to a
few hundred fps - then the photons would have a really BIG mass for the
same energy as a regular photon!  (that was just a joke - really - don't
explain to me about basic physics).

> metlay

Jim Pendergraft

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3100
From: cs161fbg@sdcc10.UCSD.EDU (Jack Dietz)
Subject: Re: (3099) (3096) Gyros
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 91 13:37:40 PST

> Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1991 09:57:16 -0500
> From: jimp@dg-rtp.dg.COM (Jim Pendergraft)
> Subject: (3099) Re: (3096) Gyros on lasers
> 
> > Date: Sun, 10 Nov 91 14:34:24 EST
> > From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU
> > Subject: (3096) Gyros on lasers
> > 
> > Carsten, your point is well taken. In fact, lasers SHOULD be treated
> > as if they are Gyrostabilized, due to their lack of recoil. But this
> > is not stated in the rules; it is merely an application of common sense.
> 
> While I am not an expert on gyrostabilization (I have never actually fired
> a gun that has it if there are real ones in existence), I don't think that
> the main purpose is control recoil.  The effect of a gyro would be to make
> the entire gun resistant to quick rotational changes (in any plane).  So you
> have 2 choices - a weak (low mass/angular velocity) or strong (high mass/vel)
> gyro.  The weak one's only real effect would be to steady your aim (which
> would apply to lasers just as well as any other type of gun).  Your aim point
> would not jiggle around because the very small unsteadiness in your arm/hand
> would be damped by the gyro.  It would do very little to control the amount
....
> Once again, my main conclusion is that a practical gyro could only help steady
> your aim - anything big enough to help control recoil is probably impossible to
> make and too dangerous to use in combat anyway.

    I'm going to quote from '3G', the BTRC's gun design book (and a
must buy, I should say):

        "Any weapon may be gyrostabilized.  This will add ... to the
    overall mass of the weapon (heavier weapons require heavier gyros),
    and is only possible at TL9 [WWII] or greater....  Hand weapon
    gyrostabilization operates on 6 gyros, with two counterrotating
    gyros on each axis, usually near the weapon's center of gravity.
    Pressure switches in the grip of the weapon speed up or brake
    certain gyros, depending on which way the weapon is moved, resulting
    in the weapon automatically pivoting in that direction.

        "Example - If the firer twisted the grip to the right, the
    weapon would smoothly pivot to the right, regardless of anything
    else the firer was doing, including running.

        "The extremely stable mount gyrostabilization provides will
    halve negative modifiers for firer movement ... but automatically
    makes the initiative of the weapon 1 worse...."

    From this I conclude that the usual use of gyrostabilization is
not so much to control recoil (you will still get a kick -- it can't
stop that) but to keep the gun steady.  Now there are cases (like
snap shots) where that can prove quite a hindrance even if you can
control the gyros (as it states above).  But for any rifle-sized weapon,
it makes sniping much easier.

> > Anyone care to argue that lasers have kick, like in Star Wars? Hmmmm? |->
> 
> Well, you could argue that those weren't lasers, since you could watch the
> 'bolts' fly across the screen.  Certainly subsonic.  Of course maybe you
> meant some other 'lasers' I forgot.

Who knows?  They played enough havok with current physical theory in
those movies that you could probably justify anything... :)

> > metlay
> 
> Jim Pendergraft

Jack Dietz.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3101
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 91 15:02:22 PST
From: salamon@sdbio2.UCSD.EDU (Andrew Salamon)
Subject: Star Wars weapons

>> > Anyone care to argue that lasers have kick, like in Star Wars? Hmmmm? |->
>> Well, you could argue that those weren't lasers, since you could watch the
>> 'bolts' fly across the screen.  Certainly subsonic.  Of course maybe you
>> meant some other 'lasers' I forgot.
>Who knows?  They played enough havok with current physical theory in
>those movies that you could probably justify anything... :)
>Jack Dietz.

(Sorry about the lack of attributions, I couldn't figure them all out.)
  I always thought of the hand weapons in Star Wars as 'blasters', by which
I mean a weapon that actually launches some sort of physical projectile.  Kinda
like a plasma pistol.  Any guesses as to what tech level would be needed to 
make such a thing in MT.  I.E. is there any good correlation between the tech
level at which a rifle (large version of a weapon) comes out and when the 
equivalent pistol comes out?

Andrew "Hiding behind 7-bit ASCII" Salamon     | a.k.a  Bleydion op Rhys
salamon@sdbio2.ucsd.edu     <---Internet       | a.k.a  Jake "Sig Sauer" Hart
Bleyddyn ap Rhys                               | a.k.a  Captain Etienne De Mer
BaR@St-Artemas.Calafia.Caid.SCA                | a.k.a  T'nol of Tiglath Weyr 

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3102
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 91 01:16:19 -0500
From: waylacm2@expert.cc.purdue.edu (Legion)
Subject: Re: Star Wars Weapons


Well, it's not a Star Wars weapon, but one of my old favorites was the
'Sandman' gun from 'Logan's Run'. I saw a blueprint once in an old Starlog
magazine...It fired ~1cm pellets of magnesium, using pressurized butane,
lit off by an electric spark at the base of the firing chamber...kind of a 
fore-runner of modern paintball guns(much the same design...don't suppose the 
first paintballers watched LR, do ya? :)

....A blazing hunk 'o magnesium hitting at about the same speed as a paint
pellet....lousy range, but I think it would be quite decidedly nasty...

heh.

PS - If anybody's interested, I have some TRULY sick weapon designs some 
friends and I came up with...

"Grade-A bang-bang!"

*******************************************************************************
*	      Legion		 * "And all this science, I don't understand; *
* waylacm2@expert.cc.purdue.edu  *  It's just my job, five days a week..."    *
*******************************************************************************

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3103
From: Jo Jaquinta <jaymin@maths.tcd.ie>
Subject: LIBRARY updates
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 91 13:48:26 GMT

	Thank you for those who commented on LIBRARY. Most of your
suggestions have been implemented. Quite a few of them were already
implemented in the non-shareware edition. A full list of new features
and details on ordering follows.
	You *can* edit the mainworld UPP for planets in a sector.
You can't, as of yet, modify otherworld's UPPs. That, plus adding
and deleting planets, will be the next step. It won't be in the next
few weeks, though. I'm getting married on the 20th and will be rather
busy :-).
	Also in the mail server directory are two or three competition
adventures the Collective has produced. In the most recent (arch.zip)
of the 60 or so player responses only two were negative.
	A curious sidenote: does anyone know any large (i.e. >40)
competition modules that had homosexual characters? That last two
we have done had two lesbians which proved to be very popular (despite
the fact that 90% of the players were male and straight). It was
only character background and had nothing to do with the scenario
but players lept upon it (metaphorically speaking).

New features:
	Travel times between systems can be viewed.
	A configuration file containing the date, jump drive, maneuver
drive, screen attributes, monitor type and print command has been added.
	Screen titles are there.
	Search for system added.
	A key on the planetary map has been added.
	In the system details -> and <- take you direct from
menu to menu.
	Animal generation tables are created for each planet.
	Animal tables can be printed for each planet.
	Menu selection can be made by first letter.
	Entire sectors can be printed.
	A grand survey map can be printed.
	A system can be searched for across sectors.
	You can browse the sector map to select systems.
	You can browse the subsector map to select systems.
	Grand survey on graphics screen.


	It is distributed as shareware for a nominal price ($15). 
Payment may be by personal cheque, cash, money order, or draft in any currency.
People sending money get updates with more features and a complete manual.
Reports of bugs and suggestions of improvements are welcome and necissary. 
Helpful people will  get mentioned in the thanks section when it is 
distributed. 
	LIBRARY is available from info-server@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie in the 
jaymin/trav directory either as the libdist.zip file or the unzipped files 
library.exe, library.doc, and core.asc. If you send mail containing the 
one line HELP as the text to info-server you will get full instructions 
on uploading files. Note the mail server will compress and uuencode files 
it sends.
	Alternatively you can FTP into lanczos.maths.tcd.ie and get it
yourself.

Send comments/queries/money to:
			Jo Jaquinta
			jaymin@maths.tcd.ie

			or

			The Devnaree Collective,
			44 Bancroft Avenue,
			Tallaght,
			Dublin 24,
			Ireland.

_______________________________________________________________________________
Jo Jaquinta			| Warbot: "I am the very model of a modern
jaymin@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie	|		major war machine!"
Dublin, IRELAND			| Jakobot: "So what?"	[Extreme Paranoia]

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3104
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 91 10:37:31 est
From: "Stress is a state of mind (Anderson, Richard)" <ANDERSOR%DICKINSN.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject: Plasma pistols

Andrew Salamon asks if there is any correlation with other weapons as to when
pistols come out after the rifle has been introduced.  My estimation would
be two tech levels later.  I take my cue from the guass rifle (praise be to
the all-mighty guass rifle), which was introduced at TL12, if memory serves.
In Striker, the Guass Pistol is introduced at TL14.  So, in that case, the
"Blaster" or, plasma pistol, would be introduced at TL18...  A TL that seems
quite in line with other Star Wars techno-gizmos.  (i.e. artificially
intelligent robots and miraculously small powerplants and drives systems...
oh, and don't forget the famous "proton torpedoes", aka anti-matter
warheads.)

Even if I have my TL wrong with when the Guass Rifle was introduced, I would
still argue that the plasma pistol would be introduced at TL18, or perhaps
TL17, but that might be pushing it.  The reason for this is simple:  If it
took them two tech levels to make a PGMP-14 into a plasma rifle, then they
certainly should take that long to make it into a pistol!  Miniturization is
one thing, but micronization of a plasma focusing element?  That would take
some doing.

Richard H. Anderson
Dickinson College
ANDERSOR@DICKINSN.Bitnet

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3105
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 91 15:45:14 PST
From: salamon@sdbio2.UCSD.EDU (Andrew Salamon)
Subject: Plasma Pistol

  Coincidently, I just found out what tech level would be needed to make
plasma pistols (which is what I considered the hand weapons in Star Wars).
  In the MT Referee's Companion it lists plasma pistols under tech leve 17, 
although it doesn't include any other info :(

Andrew "Hiding behind 7-bit ASCII" Salamon     | a.k.a  Bleydion op Rhys
salamon@sdbio2.ucsd.edu     <---Internet       | a.k.a  Jake "Sig Sauer" Hart
Bleyddyn ap Rhys                               | a.k.a  Captain Etienne De Mer
BaR@St-Artemas.Calafia.Caid.SCA                | a.k.a  T'nol of Tiglath Weyr 

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3106
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 91 00:22:30 EST
From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: Homosexual characters in role-playing

There's no surprise at all in your report as far as my 15 years in the
gaming business are concerned, Jo. Lesbianism is a source of endless
fascination to most men, who find it highly erotic. I dare you to run
a campaign with two MALE gays, and see if you can get anyone at all to
(a) run them (b) do so without acting like the stereotypical screaming
queens.

metlay

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3107
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 91 00:24:47 EST
From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: Grade-A bang-bang

This from the guy who's been causing mayhem in my GenCon Traveller
adventures for what, seven years now?

Actually the Logan's Run movie gun HAS Traveller rules written up;
I designed it quite a while ago but never published the stats. I'd
need to modify it to MT rules first. My version uses fulminated 
mercury doped with copper, fired by a Gauss field (ask Craig about
the 'tube' I'm trying to introduce to MT with some help from mah
frenz (after I get the other two articles I'm working on out of the
way....)). Magnesium won't burn green when it hits, and won't ignite
from a single spark-- certainly not a 1cm pellet of the stuff!

Actually, the OTHER Logan's Run gun, the one from the Book, was ten 
times nastier. I'd written it up and had it accepted for JTAS a LONG
time ago, but MArc Miller axed the idea. Good thing, too; it would
have shot game balance to hell.

metlay

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3108
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 91 21:47:48 EST
From: popeet!wildstar@uunet.UU.NET (Derek Wildstar)
Subject: Re: Star Wars Weapons

>  I always thought of the hand weapons in Star Wars as 'blasters', by which
>I mean a weapon that actually launches some sort of physical projectile.  Kinda
>like a plasma pistol.  Any guesses as to what tech level would be needed to 
>make such a thing in MT.  I.E. is there any good correlation between the tech
>level at which a rifle (large version of a weapon) comes out and when the 
>equivalent pistol comes out?
>
>Andrew "Hiding behind 7-bit ASCII" Salamon


  Well, the Star Wars blasters are a version of the classic S-F pulp zap
guns, and as such they don't really have to obey any sort of reality.  If I
*HAD* to, I guess I would call them a kind of a plasma pistol.

  In one of my campaigns, one character funded a research project, the
culmination of which was the construction of a device he called the PPMP-16.
It looked like a rather large hair dryer, connected to a backpack power
supply (approximately the same size and weight as that for a laser rifle).
Its combat statistics were approximately the same as a PGMP-12, but it
contained only about half the ammo.  In MegaTraveller terms, that would be
a pen/atten of 20/1, damage of 12, and difficulty as pistol.

The thing was a one of a kind, and the total cost of the prototype was over
a million credits (the total cost of the research program was considerably
more than that, in addition).  The design was offered to Instellarms, but
they declined production; not only was the weapon realtively expensive to
make, it had a limited market, and was very sensitive to maintainance.

Because it is so close to the "bleeding edge" of technology, the PPMP-16
suffered from a couple of problems.  Both of these are maintainance related;
the operating characteristics of the gun time, barrel wear, and power pack
charge.  A special hand computer program, combined with a maintainance kit
were used to keep the weapon in top shape.

Without proper maintainance (and generally whenever the firer rolled a "2"
for his to-hit roll) one or the other of two things would happen.
First, the hydrogen plasma "seed" could fail to be properly contained for
plasma heating.  The effect was a low powered shot (half pen and damage)
that did not form into a proper beam; instead, it spread out like a 
flamethrower in front of the weapon (and with about the same range).
Secondly, the plasma could be over-contained, and may actually start to
fuse (pen/atten 25/1, damage 14).  Unfortunately the higher recoil is
usually not compensated by the gravitic system, resulting in loss of control
of the weapon, muscle strains, sprained joints, and in one case a fractured
wrist (the PPMP-16 was really *NOT* designed with Vargr in mind).

The weapon was last seen before the 5th Frontier War, in the Spinward Marches
region (specifically in the hands of a mixed Aslan/Human starmerc outfit
operating out of the Darrian Confederation).

Wildstar

You want to take good care of your star, otherwise it gets all dark and icky.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3109
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1991 17:24 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Gravitoelectrodynamics!!!!!

Howdy folks,

Just got out of a colloquim on Gravitoelectrodynamics given by a Dr. Torr.
Wow!  Looks like some interesting stuff going on.  They are putting
General Relativity together with Electrodynamics.  Cool stuff!  They've
worked out analogs of Maxwell's equations for use with Gravitation.

Well, you guys know about colloquia, you pick up what little you can.
So I just thought I'd give my impression on what he was saying.  Don't
Crucify me if there is a Gravitation PhD out there!  (Hey! I'm only a
1st quarter grad student)

Right.  In Electodynamics, you have a force due to a static charge (Static
electricity) and a force due to a moving charge (Magnetism) Well, by analogy
a static mass has a gravitational force due to its mass (The one we
experience every day) and a gravitational force due to its movement.

Well, you'd need a mass moving Very fast to get a Magnetic equivalent to
gravitation, but it could be measurable inside a superconductor.  The
speed of gravitation (that they used was u*c {that is supposed to be a mu but
there are no greek letters on here})  So you could create a gravitational
field!

My knowlege of superconductors is limited so that's about where I got lost.

This would indicate your space craft would have some sort of superconducting
shield around the inside of the hull to create your artificial gravity.
Since the speed of gravitation depends on the permittivity of the medium, it
might be possible to reflect grav waves within the hull creating a standing
wave of gravitation, if so, your gravitation field would not extend far
beyond the hull.

Now that I think of it imagine varying the permittivity in such a way... that
you'd get gravitational lenses!  (Anybody remember the design I put out for
the lab ship with a gravitational telescope?)  Also, by verying permittivity
you might get such oddities as a gravitational equivalent to a doppler shift.

Can you imagine a gravitational equivalent to cherenkov radiation?  WOW!
(non physics folks:  A Gravitational Sonic Boom!)  Wierd huh?

Hey maybe TL9 isn't that far away!

Scott Kellogg

------------------------------

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        jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com (James T. Perkins)
Subject: TML Bundle #256: Msgs 3109-3118
Reply-To: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Precedence: bulk
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 91 21:00:14 PST
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com>
Status: R


TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed Nov 20 21:00:09 PST 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #256: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
3110  14-Nov-91 Richard Johnson   Ancient Weapons and Hokey Religions << ... ar
3111  16-Nov-91 Mike.Metlay@ORGAN A plea from the backwatered.... << I'm hopele
3112  16-Nov-91 Robert S. Dean    Recent Announcements and GEnie Traffic << Fri
3113  17-Nov-91 grue@cs.uq.oz.au  Re: Gravitoelectrodynamics!!!!! << hi, >Hey m
3114  17-Nov-91 Orcinus orca      Re: (3113) Re: Gravitoelectrodynamics!!!!! <<
3115  18-Nov-91 waylacm2@expert.c Con Man needs Stuff << So. The Purdue SF club
3116  15-Nov-91 Adrian Hurt       Re: Star Wars weapons << salamon@sdbio2.UCSD.
3117  17-Nov-91 cadpoole@atlas.cs Spaced Out? << I am hoping someone here can g
3118  18-Nov-91 npc@soliton.physi Science stuff and TL 9. << People have specul
3119  18-Nov-91 Robert S. Dean    More from GEnie << More from GEnie...I'll sen

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3110
Subject: Ancient Weapons and Hokey Religions
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 91 9:42:40 PST
From: Richard Johnson <richard@agora.rain.COM>

.... are no match for a blaster at your side.  :=)

<Andrew Salamon>
:(Sorry about the lack of attributions, I couldn't figure them all out.)
: I always thought of the hand weapons in Star Wars as 'blasters', by which
:I mean a weapon that actually launches some sort of physical projectile.  Kinda
:like a plasma pistol.  Any guesses as to what tech level would be needed to 
:make such a thing in MT.  I.E. is there any good correlation between the tech
:level at which a rifle (large version of a weapon) comes out and when the 
:equivalent pistol comes out?

I always considered them aplasma pistol as well. 
 Sort of PGMP, hand - 18  (Maybe this is a PBEM hint...)

I've never seen a good correlation for the rifle-carbine-pistol development
and TL, but then there wouldn't necessarily be one.  Handguns and rifles
have historically (on Terra) evolved separately.

So, is your blaster a revolver or a semi-auto?  (full auto PGMP? WOW!)
- -- 
Richard Johnson     richard@agora.rain.com
Sue Congress!

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3111
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 91 12:17:24 EST
From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: A plea from the backwatered....

I'm hopelessly out of sync with the rest of the world with respect
to gaming periodicals. Would some kind soul please Email me and tell 
me what, if anything, has come out with respect to Traveller recently?

I know Solomani and Aslan isn't out yet, and I know nothing new from 
GDW is out yet, because there's been no chat on the TML about them.
But what about MegaTrav Journal 3, or CHALLENGE? The last issues I
have are 2 and 51, respectively.

Email only, don't clog the TML please.

Thanks in a trance,

metlay

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3112
Date:     Sat, 16 Nov 91 23:18:43 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Recent Announcements and GEnie Traffic

Friends, it is late at night on a Saturday, and I am uploading the following
traffic from GEnie unedited because I am too tired to edit it.  Make of it
what you will.  I'll have more to say on Monday.

Yours,

Rob Dean

- -----------------------------------]


 ************
Topic 3         Thu Jun 01, 1989
J.FUGATE                     at 18:48 MDT
Sub: MegaTraveller - General Discussions    

This topic is to be a catch-all topic for any discussion that doesn't fit in
any other topic.
395 message(s) total.
 ************
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 3
Message 379       Fri Nov 01, 1991
R.DEAN14 [Rob Dean]          at 07:41 EST
 
Great!  When would you expect S&A to be in our hot little hands?  I have to
send a copy to Geramny for a firend (as well as get one for me, of course)
ASAP, and.... (Germany, make that...can't type in the morning.) Rob Dean
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 3
Message 380       Fri Nov 01, 1991
DIGEST.GROUP [Staff]         at 15:25 EST
 
I won 'toops I won't be able to give more than a ballpark guesstimate until it
comes back from the printer (then it'll be about two weeks). I don't imagine 
it should be at the printers any longer than another week. I'll keep you
posted.

                            Jay
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 3
Message 381       Sat Nov 09, 1991
DIGEST.GROUP [Staff]         at 01:24 EST
 
SUBJECT: DGP is putting MT production on hold during production of AI

After much thoughtful consideration, DGP's MegaTraveller production has been
put on hold, pending the release of AI and gaining a better understanding of
GDW's direction regarding MegaTraveller. After MTJ3 (due out in January), the
next three releases from DGP will be the AI game and two support products for
it. Onnesium Quest has been cancelled.

Onnesium quest was cancelled for two main reasons: 1) Adventures do not sell
well, and with DGP's limited resources, it makes sense to maximize our returns
for a given amount of work. MegaTraveller adventure products give us the WORST
return for a unit of effort. Even the magazine does better in terms of dollar
sales than an adventure product. 2) We didn't feel right keeping Philip in the
dark concerning our decision to put all MegaTraveller production on hold for
the next year. So we told him our priority for the foreseable future is AI,
not MegaTraveller.

I would be less than honest if I didn't admit that Marc Miller leaving GDW has
had an effect on this decision to put MT production on hold. Marc gave the
game a sense of wonder and direction as its inventor. With- out him closely
involved in the game's direction, a lot of my own personal pleasure from
working with the game is gone -- but that's just me and I know that others
don't necessarily feel the same way.

DGP has suffered to some extent over the years because of our tendency to
think like fans rather than like owners of a business. Our accountant has
cringed at some of our decisions -- like our insistence on producing the
magazine even though it took just as much effort to produce as any  product,
and yet our unit take was only HALF of what we would get for a product. A
small business typically has a very slim profit margin, and our accountant
would also ask time and again when we were going to get out of a royalty
arrangement with some other game company. "Do your own game" she would say
over and over. "NO, we like Traveller," we would  say.

That time has come to an end. We have decided to do something different this
time and to treat DGP like a business, not as a fan organization that sells
stuff. AI is already getting a lot of good response. A case in point is the
situation this last summer when Rob was flying to GENCON and he sat next to an
individual from Milton-Bradley, also going to GENCON as it turned out. When
Rob told this person he was with Digest Group, this person's response was "Oh
yeah? When's AI coming out?"

We've never seen that level of interest or notariety from Traveller.

- --Joe Fugate, Owner, DGP

 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 3
Message 382       Sun Nov 10, 1991
M.LEYMASTER                  at 14:21 EST
 
Sorry to see the end of DGP's Traveller.  I wish you well with A.I.,  tthough
there is little chance I will be a buyer.
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 3
Message 383       Tue Nov 12, 1991
J.KUNDERT [Farstar]          at 21:35 EST
 
SUBJECTS:
 -DGP's Decision
 -The "Mega-" Difference
 -GDW's two Role-Playing Systems


 -DGP's Decision
   I can't say I like what I hear, but I understand the realities of the
situation.  I hope that history will justify Joe's confidence in A.I., but I
curse at the loss of Traveller's foremost supporter.
 -The "Mega-" Difference
   With the introduction of MegaTraveller and the assassination of Strephon,
GDW gained a lively, moving background in which to revive Traveller. 
Unfortunately, that lively, moving background is also a disadvantage.  No
longer can a writer spend six months to a year polishing a scenario or book. 
No longer can an editor put off the publication of a project by six months. 
Delays like this are almost certain demise for a project in the Rebellion Era,
since history will have moved beyond the project long before it reaches
publication.

   While this is not a big problem with magazine articles, major releases like
"Rebel Tales" and "Grand Explorations" are no longer appropriate for
publication when their day in history has passed.  Imagine trying to convince
GDW (in 1988) to publish "Leviathan" or "Signal GK".  It would not have been
done.  The setting for those adventures (Trojan Reaches without Aslan; sedate
Solomani Sphere) was gone.

   Similarly, a lot of late Rebellion writing is going to be left in the dust
(for anything but magazine publication) when GDW accelerates the clock again. 
If this acceleration results in a long period of stability for the former
Imperium, then it will be a good thing.  Writers will again be able to plan
for publication of big projects that won't become irrelevant before the
writing is finished.  Rejected manuscripts will return to a normal percentage
of the whole, as "no longer relevant" drops from the list of reasons for
rejection.
   I look forward to the next jump of the Imperial Clock.  It will vastly
improve our chances of getting anything (other than Challenge) from GDW.


 -GDW's two Role-Playing Systems
   For the record, I am NOT in favor of converting the Traveller background to
the Twilit:2K/Cads&Dinos/DarkSpiracy system.  It does not need (and cannot
use) the support of the Twilight equipment books, and cannot benefit from the
other two games, since the strong background differences render their material
worthless to Traveller.
   Traveller does not NEED the gross realism of the Twilight combat system;
Traveller combat is dangerous enough already.  To change the career-oriented
character generation of Traveller is to change the whole feel of the game.  To
change the craft rules (as opposed to finishing them) is to court disaster,
since a great deal of player effort in vehicle design would be rendered
obsolete.
   If this (unwanted and unneeded) change is to occur, it should be in the
form of two-way conversion rules, and NOT a complete revision and
republication of Traveller.  The old-time Traveller players already grumble
about buying the background all over again (in MT), and would not stand for
buying it a third time.


 Farstar
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 3
Message 384       Thu Nov 14, 1991
GDW.SUPPORT [Loren W.]       at 23:26 EST
 
  Traveller The New Era

   Just in time for its 15th anniversary, Traveller is back! Coming in the
Fall  of 1992, Traveller will burst back onto the gaming scene with revamped
streamlined, state of the art rules, compatible with GDW's Twilight/ Dark
Con/Cads&Dinos rules system. The rules will remain faithful to the precepts
established in the original Traveller and MegaTraveller, but will  be made
more accessible to the first time player. The New Rules will be  accompanied
by an updated campaign setting, which will be contemporary  with the Star
Viking miniatures rules. What became of the Imperium? How did the Rebellion
end? Who are these Viking guys, and was that a Hiver  we just saw? Like they
say, it's always darkest before the dawn.
     Traveller is 15...its never been this good.
        Dave Nilsen
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 3
Message 385       Fri Nov 15, 1991
J.KUNDERT [Farstar]          at 02:55 EST
 
Writing on the wall...
 I will (wisely) adapt a "wait and see" attitude...

 Farstar
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 3
Message 386       Fri Nov 15, 1991
DIGEST.GROUP [Staff]         at 03:15 EST
 
Wait and see what??
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 3
Message 387       Sat Nov 16, 1991
J.KUNDERT [Farstar]          at 01:24 EST
 
Wait and see what the future holds for Traveller and HIWG...

 In the mean time (and to speed up the above wait-and-see) I would suggest we
temporarily use Topic 8 for discussion of the revision.  The Q&A topic has
seen little enough activity, and we ought to have one place where we (HIWG in
particular) can ask about the upcoming changes (most of which are RULES
changes after all)

 Farstar
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 3
Message 388       Sat Nov 16, 1991
ED.EDWARDS                   at 01:47 EST
 
In advance, put me in for a copy of TRAVELLER rules #6.
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 3
Message 389       Sat Nov 16, 1991
DIGEST.GROUP [Staff]         at 02:31 EST
 
You know, it seems like I've seen a lot of excess whining about the fact that
Traveller will be going into its third revision. If you think about it, 3
major revisions in 15 years aint too bad.

Just an opinion.

- - Jay
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 3
Message 390       Sat Nov 16, 1991
C.FAGO1 [Carl Fago]          at 14:45 EST
 
I don't think the whining is unjustified.  There was quite a bit of good
discussion of the subject on the USENET Traveller Mailing list. Basically, I
won't be buying the revision for the same reason that I didn't buy AD&D Second
edition.  There is no substantial improvement over the previous edition.

The key word here is "improvement".  There is probably a lot of "change" but
how much of that is "improvement".  I don't want to spend my money on
something different.  There is so much conflictiong information, missing
information, and just plain poor editing in the Mega Traveller rules as it
stands that, without some substantial proof that GDW has improved basic
proofreading in the years, I won't be inclined to even think about buying Star
Viking.

And thinking about it, three major revisions in 15 years does seem a bit
excessive.

                                         *-=Carl=-*
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 3
Message 391       Sat Nov 16, 1991
DIGEST.GROUP [Staff]         at 16:29 EST
 
....  *Sigh*
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 3
Message 392       Sat Nov 16, 1991
T.CAMPBELL8                  at 16:57 EST
 
I'm afraid I have to jump on you a little to Jay-
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 3
Message 393       Sat Nov 16, 1991
T.CAMPBELL8                  at 16:59 EST
 
If you think about it three major revisions in 15
 years is pretty -bad-. And two major revisions in - 5- years is worse. I
think the concerns raised by
 Farstar and others (especially the upload in the
 library from TML) are legitimate- I think calling
 it whining is an injustice. You will not find more
 devoted, intelligent Trav/MT fans anywhere than
 the group here on GEnie. And frankly hearing a
 member of DGP's staff having that kind of callous
 opinion of some of the most ardent supporters of  DGP is surprising- I hope
they are not as insulting  to the AI crowd. I've quietly enjoyed  the
discussions on this board for almost a year.  I've read comments that could be
considered whining-  people too concerned about the tedious- people  letting
the
 many little unexplanables in Trav rob the fun for
 them- but I do not consider the worried statements
 of late from several of what I consider premier
 trav-fans, whining. It has been a bad last several
 months for MT fans. We've seen the departure of
 Marc Miller the ultimate prime mover in Traveller
 (without whom a third revision is almost doomed to
 failure- I hope I'm wrong.) We've seen at least the
 long term withdrawal of DGP from MT products, and
 we've seen many excellent ideas for support
 products get shot down in favor of a third revision
 that I'm honestly straining to find some good
 points for. Farstar's concerns about products/ and
 or product idea submission turning obsolete because
 of the whirling rush of official time I think is
 particularly well founded. Columbia Games' Harn
 World products for instance never move their
 offical time. They have also never had a major
 revision in well over 10 years of being in
 business. I can tell that GDW isn't really
 targeting me (an old Trav grognard) with this
 upcoming product- They want new blood to keep their
 coffers from drying out. I can't blame them for
 that- a game company has to think like that to stay
 alive- I'm only saying that if the trend continues-
 if marketing concerns beat out honest
 craftsmenship- GDW and T/MT/SV will be dead or as
 good as dead anyway.

And where as that wouldn't be the end of the world
 (there is certainly enough matieral to run
 campaigns for the next century), it -is-
 frustrating to see such potential for gaming
 products go down the drain in favor of what sounds
 like (yes I know it's not out yet) an ill advised
 and perhaps seld limiting product direction.
 Whining, indeed, it sounds like honest concerns
 from loyal fans and friends of GDW.



 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 3
Message 394       Sat Nov 16, 1991
T.CAMPBELL8                  at 17:30 EST
 
Now _that_ was an ugly up-load. My apologies everyone, I hope my  humble
points and my defense of Farstar (et. al.) position  got across ok.- Tom.
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 3
Message 395       Sat Nov 16, 1991
GDW.SUPPORT [Loren W.]       at 17:59 EST
 
Dave Nilsen (N-i-l-s-E-n) and I will be hosting an RTC on the subject of the
future of Traveller some time in the next few weeks (as soon as we work out a
couple of details in-house). Watch this space for the announcement of time,
etc.
      Loren Wiseman
 ------------

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3113
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 91 10:35:16+1100
From: grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Subject: Re: Gravitoelectrodynamics!!!!!

hi,


>Hey maybe TL9 isn't that far away!

According to our local newspaper, somebody in Europe managed to maintain a
(hot) fusion reaction for a couple of seconds (? not exactly sure how long it
really was).  If we get fusion we would also get to TL9.



        						Pauli

Paul Dale               | Internet/CSnet:            grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Dept of Computer Science| Bitnet:       grue%cs.uq.oz.au@uunet.uu.net
Uni of Queensland       | JANET:           grue%cs.uq.oz.au@uk.ac.ukc
Australia, 4072         | EAN:                          grue@cs.uq.oz
                        | UUCP:           uunet!munnari!cs.uq.oz!grue
f4e6g4Qh4++             | JUNET:                     grue@cs.uq.oz.au

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3114
Date:     Sun, 17 Nov 91 23:16:45 PST
From: Orcinus orca <jokim@jarthur.Claremont.edu>
Subject:  Re:  (3113) Re: Gravitoelectrodynamics!!!!!

  Paul> According to our local newspaper, somebody in Europe managed to
  Paul> maintain a (hot) fusion reaction for a couple of seconds (? not
  Paul> exactly sure how long it really was).  If we get fusion we 
  Paul> would also get to TL9. 

Here's what I remember (I'm pretty sure it's right):

10 MW of power in, 1.8 MW of power out for 2 seconds.  It's still not
putting out more energy than we're putting in, but 2 seconds is an awful
long time for something that hot.  Technically, we've had controlled
fusion reactions for some time, just haven't made it pay off yet.
- --
John H. Kim
jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu
uunet!jarthur!jokim

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3115
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 91 03:11:18 -0500
From: waylacm2@expert.cc.purdue.edu (Legion)
Subject: Con Man needs Stuff


So. The Purdue SF club (the SS Voyager) is holding a 'con this spring...they're
talking about how to organize everything...I mouth off about helping a friend
of mine who runs the gaming room for RiverCon, and POOF! I'm recruited to
be Gaming Coordinator for WabashCon '92 (mark yer calendars now, boys 'n 
girls! 24-26 April right here at good 'ol Pud U. I'll post details sometime...
next year...:)

Anyway, one of the things a GC does is solicit (I love that term, don't you?)
gaming companies for 'Promotional Stuff' on their products that can be
handed out as door prizes, tournament prizes, here-take-this-stuff-off-my-hands
- -my-room-is-full prizes...you get the idea.

Since I don't have access to (or money for same) to GEnie, I was wondering
if some kind soul out there could e-mail me address for contacting the
PR types at GDW or DGP...or whatever gaming companies you happen to have
a 'contact' at...

I know from some of last night's articles that MT is on hold, and DGP isn't
real thrilled about continuing support of this, but I figure they might
have just a roomful of stuff they don't really need(nudge nudge), and 
they're gonna want to clear that space out for new products(wink wink)...

Muchas gracias to all concerned...

				Craig
*******************************************************************************
*	      Legion		 * "And all this science, I don't understand; *
* waylacm2@expert.cc.purdue.edu  *  It's just my job, five days a week..."    *
*******************************************************************************

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3116
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Star Wars weapons
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 91 10:20:27 GMT

salamon@sdbio2.UCSD.EDU (Andrew Salamon) writes:
>
>   I always thought of the hand weapons in Star Wars as 'blasters', by which
> I mean a weapon that actually launches some sort of physical projectile.
> Kinda like a plasma pistol.  Any guesses as to what tech level would be needed
> to make such a thing in MT.  I.E. is there any good correlation between the
> tech level at which a rifle (large version of a weapon) comes out and when
> the equivalent pistol comes out?

7mm rifle: TL5		9mm revolver: TL4:	Pistol TL = Rifle TL - 1
7mm auto-rifle: TL6	9mm auto-pistol: TL5:	Pistol TL = Rifle TL - 1
Gauss rifle: TL12	Gauss pistol: TL13:	Pistol TL = Rifle TL + 1
Laser carbine: TL8	Laser rifle/pistol: TL9	Pistol TL = longarm TL + 1
PGMP: TL12		Plasma rifle: TL16	Rifle TL = introductory
							   TL + 4

So, there seems to be little correlation between the introductory TL of a
rifle (or longarm), and the introductory TL of the equivalent pistol in
general.  For the gauss and laser weapons, the TL of the pistol is one
above the TL of the earliest longarm.  If the plasma rifle is TL16, then I
would make the plasma pistol TL17.

(Incidentally, there's something wrong with the table of weapons in the
Imperial Encyclopedia.  The 9mm auto-pistol is TL5; the 7mm auto-pistol
is TL6.  As far as I know, the earliest auto-pistol was the Borchardt,
the forerunner of the Luger, and that was 7.63mm.  The earliest Luger was
also 7.63mm, as was the Mauser M1896.  Did we really get to TL6 before we
got to TL5?)

What TL is a light-sabre?  :-)

- -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3117
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 91 03:04:08 -0400
From: cadpoole@atlas.cs.upei.ca (Dale Poole)
Subject: Spaced Out?



I am hoping someone here can give me a hand with a game design.

I'm writing a Space Opera PBM, based on 'high lo-tech' equipment.
Just imagine the Nouveau design of space ships weapons, dress and
equipment evoked in 40's and 50's science fiction writing.
This is the universe were bazillions of megawatts of energy are
required to keep a city alive, or for that matter, a frieghter
plying the space between planets in the same system.
  The game already has quite a few variables for the players to adjust,
and which will heighten it's ability to portray a certain realism.
  But two facets elude what I feel is an adequate solution.

They are moving a mass through space, and ship to ship combat.

Travel through this galaxy is based on the time it takes to move a
field of hexes.  Engines move a ship at a ratio of 1 hex for each
engine factor.  Thus Engines-1 moves the ship 1 hex. Engines-5, move it
5 hexes.

My problem with this idea is that if the ship is 20 tonnes or 1000 tonnes
in size, any engine factor will move boths ships the same distance.

My knowledge of physics is strictly bounded my an incomplete reading of
Stephen Hawkings A History of Time.
It seems to me there is more to moving a ship through space.

I'm not looking for an exact duplicate of what happens in "Real Life",
for sure this is strictly a 2D universe.  But I'd like something with
a little more 'texture' while still being a relatively easy formula
for players to handle.


As for ship to ship combat, my ideas are rudimentary at best, and not
worth repeating here.

What I'm looking for help with are the 'factors' one must consider
when putting together a combat system. The situation is one of
simple energy shields vs 'beam of energy' weapons and missiles of severely
destructive power, usually reserved for long range attack.

The obvious 'factors' are weapon strength vs. shield strength, but many
other factors could be added.  Witness the recent discussions on
agility.  There is again the question of engines and how they might
affect combat.  Tractor beams have notbeen invented as yet, nor have
other weapons systems.

I realize that this mailing list is not the forum for this topic of
discussion, but I also recognize that the deep involvement with the
Traveller System, evidenced in the high level of discussion between
those who take part in this mailing list, represents my best source of
ideas on the milieu of spacefarers. (In otherwords a bit of shameless
flattery - honest tho' you folks amaze me with the manner in which you
incorporate and project into the future, the state of science in all of
it's facets).

Any help you can offer will be greatly appreciated.


Dale Poole
cadpoole@atlas.cs.upei.ca
pbemrednisky

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3118
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 91 17:31:02 MST
From: npc@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (Nick Christenson, University of Arizona)
Subject: Science stuff and TL 9.


People have speculated here WRT how far/near planet Earth is to TL 9, 
I thought I'd add my two cents worth.  

First, the magnetic analog to gravitational fields has been speculated
about since early this century.  Since the gravitational force has
the same functional form as the electromagnetic force (except everything
has the same "charge") it is no surprise that one should be able to 
measure a dipole-magnetic like force from relativistically moving 
masses.  Note that the magnitude of this field will be *tiny*, therefore
the amount of energy required to produce any measureable effect is 
*enormous*.  We won't be at Tau Ceti any time soon:-)

Next, regarding the recent successes in fusion experiments, the 
net energy release is indeed a step forward, but unfortunately it is
a small one.  It will, barring a breakthrough of extreme proportions,
still be decades before the first experimental fusion plant is on line.

In conclusion, if we want to get Earth's TL listing upgraded to 9, 
our best chance is to advance computer and medical technology and let
fusion and JD slide for a while;-)

Nick Christenson
npc@soliton.physics.arizona.edu


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3119
Date:     Mon, 18 Nov 91 20:20:26 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  More from GEnie

More from GEnie...I'll send my response to the last here to the TML, too,
when it gets written.  If you have comments, I'll send them back that way.

Rob


 ************
Topic 3         Thu Jun 01, 1989
J.FUGATE                     at 18:48 MDT
Sub: MegaTraveller - General Discussions    

This topic is to be a catch-all topic for any discussion that doesn't fit in
any other topic.
 ************
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 3
Message 397       Sun Nov 17, 1991
DIGEST.GROUP [Staff]         at 02:27 EST
 
 Let me first say that, despite my e-mail address, I was NOT speaking as
 a DGP representative when I made my comment. I have very little to do
 with the MT side of DGP.

 Having said that...


 Don't you think that y'all are being a little pessimistic here? You 
 really don't know all of the particulars as to what these changes
 will entail. You Do know that there will be a new system (the T2K/
 DC/CAD system) and if you don't like the game system than I could
 understand your complaints. You also know A LITTLE about what the
 new setting will be but probably not enough to make definite judgements
 about it.

 Personally, I'm anxious to see what is done with the new game. I never
 much liked the old system myself and found it difficult to relate to.
 Everything is spread out over so many different supplements it was 
 nearly impossible to have somebody pick it up and play it without 
 somebody else around who had been doing it since day one.

 Given the time you all have spent on this game I guess I can see
 that more change can be a very frightening thing and maybe you feel
 like you're being abandoned by GDW. I think that maybe you should 
 look at the alternative though. Let's say that there wasn't going to
 be any changes... how long do you think the game would last? Or maybe
 you think that you have better ideas of how it could be changed...
 well, it's not your game.

 I wasn't trying to flame you guys or anything by saying that I thought
 that you were whining but I would think that you would be more positive 
 about it. Things could be worse. Look at me, I'm still hoping that there
 is a future for 2300AD...

 I've said enough. I'll go away now.

 - Jay
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 3
Message 398       Sun Nov 17, 1991
GDW.SUPPORT [Loren W.]       at 12:49 EST

One of the things we want VERY much is customer input, which we are seeking
through several sources...one of those sources is GEnie. If anyone has
concerns about what we are doing, or suggestions, or questions, complaints,
comments , suggestions, or whatever, we want to hear them. 
     Let me point out one thing that seems to be generating some mis-
understanding here: we will not be changing over to the Twilight: 2000
background history, just a variant of the rule mechanics. We want to  re-
instill the original excitement the game engendered, cleaning up rules
problems and smoothing out hastles.
     If we change nothing, and let things go along as they are,  one of the
longest running RPGs will slowly go down the drain, and we will not allow that
to happen.
    The upcoming RTC (time to be announced) will explain what plans are, and I
would appreciate it if people would wait until they find out what we plan on
doing before commenting...reacting to rumors or speculations won't do anybody
any good.
         Loren Wiseman
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 3
Message 399       Sun Nov 17, 1991
B.BORICH [LA TERRORIST]      at 12:53 EST
 
    <3 revisions in 15 years> Is actually about par for the course, at least
for those RPG's that survived that long :). Although I would say the second
revision was incomplete, in more ways than one.

    <2 revisions in 5 years> Offhand I can't think of an RPG that hasn't been
revised in five years, though I will say that traveller has done it in reverse
compared to most. By this I mean that most RPG's go into their 2nd edition
within the first five years, the third by fifteen years. This is by all the
examples I can think of. (this covers GDW, FASA, TSR, Chaosium, Columbia
Games, FGU, the possible exception is WEG who I'm not familiar with all that
much).

    <Revision> Most people have wanted parts of MT revised in the first place,
the only possible complaint might be seeing parts other than those wanted
revised. And the fact that it's coming about 1-2 years earlier than expected.

    <Columbia games never having a major revision> That's a matter of opinion,
I've lost track of their revisions, but I've seen parts of it revised three
times, not even including new information in later versions of an edition that
wasn't in the first edition. In my opinion they were worse than a lot of other
companies till they settled down somewhat.

    <T2000/DC> I like the character generation system used by these games
(well at least DC with which I'm slightly more familiar), my only possible
complaint would be retaining some of the flavor of the current system. I also
like aspects of the combat system.

    Am I taking GDW's part in this, well maybe, I think some of the changes
might be in the right direction, I think other parts are in the wrong
direction, will I buy the product, I don't know. Will I buy Star Vikings,
almost definitely not. Do I like the new future, almost definitely not, but
part of that's because I have severe doubts about GDW carrying it out well,
and whether such a future is 'realistic' in terms of the Traveller universe. I
think the background should be seperated from the rules in this case with
three possibilities (no rebellion, rebellion, post rebellion).

    All I've seen is people complain about the state of affairs (me included,
so I don't want to hear about it). All I can say is that if your unwilling or
unable to put some effort in, you'se get what you pay for. It's easy to
complain, it's harder to provide constructive alternatives, if GDW doesn't get
constructive alternatives they have to do what they think is best. And I
definitely agree with them that the rules need an overhaul (just thinking on
how long HIWG's Starship group has taken to get the rules figured out
correctly for one, and I'm still awaiting an errata free version of the MT
rules).

    So if you guys want to complain, suggest alternatives to GDW so they can
get it right. And I haven't seen one person who hasn't wanted parts of MT
revised because of problems.

    As for editing problems, well MT probably had more than it's fair share of
problems, but than I've seen very few 1st editions without editing problems or
something missing. Hopefully GDW takes more time proofreading this time.
Usually the problem is a company trying to rush out the product by GenCon or
Origins (or Christmas). In this respect gaming companies and computer software
companies have a lot in common.

    This doesn't mean I'm not going to b___h and complain along with the rest
of you guys, it does mean I will try to offer constructive criticism to GDW,
and hopefully they will have a more active presence telling what they have in
mind, so that others can stick there two cents in (unless of course they get
turned off by the hatemail).
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 3
Message 400       Sun Nov 17, 1991
M.MIKESH                     at 16:21 EST
 
      I dislike the idea of a third revision of Traveller, yet I
 welcome it if it helps assure stronger support.
      I'm one of those people who would rather see Traveller go back to
 its space black covers and classic rules system.  I loved the idea of
 a largely static frontier backdrop, a canvass upon a which a referee
 could devise his own campaign as inspired by his favorite SF books and
 films.  The game had a lot of charm.
      But I also want new products with which to support my campaign.
 I'd prefer additional volumes in the same vein as THE TRAVELLER
 ADVENTURE.  Those days are over.  So, my choice is to dig in my heels
 and buy nothing, or buy what GDW gives us and like it.  I opt for the
 later.
      Am I some whimp who won't put up a fight?  No.  Its just that
 after several meetings with Marc and contact with Loren and other
 staffers, I think I see GDW's side in this.  If you open Frank
 Chadwick's office door, you are not going to see him gleefully
 counting stacks of coins.  The folks at Game Designer's Workshop
 didn't start as visionary businessmen with hopes of making their
 fortune.  Rather, they have a passion for games, as a lot of us do.
 And therein lies the problem.
      I believe Loren.  GDW does pay close attention to comments, and
 cares very much about fan opinion.  I know feedback letters and
 convention discussions have influenced their actions on many
 occasions.  But they are also in this for their own enjoyment,
 something I didn't appreciate until reading remarks from Joe Fugate
 (TS20).  Since they're not in it for the (non-existant) bags of money,
 then they're in it for the fun.  And we have to allow for it.
      In short, we should respect their desires if we expect them to
 remain receptive to our's.
                                                                   MIKE
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 3
Message 401       Sun Nov 17, 1991
DIGEST.GROUP [Staff]         at 16:49 EST
 
I'm glad to see that my initial post has provided a springboard for  open
discussion. It's surprising how much of this has already been talked about on
other systems or through e-mail but not here. If Joe or Rob have plans for the
RTC night, I'll be there myself because I am very  interested in what will be
said by all who attend.

- - Jay
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 3
Message 402       Sun Nov 17, 1991
C.FAGO1 [Carl Fago]          at 21:26 EST
 
Mike,
  With regard to being us respecting their desires...

One note I would interject is that it is _my_ money that I am spending.  I
expect the most from any product I buy and am disappointed (in various
degrees) when the product fails to live up to my expectation (based on hear-
say, price, and review).

So if a business expects _my_ dollar, I don't see that _I_ should have to
compromise.  And any business that expects this is going to fail.  Harsh
reality of the business world.

                                         *-=Carl=-*
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 3
Message 403       Sun Nov 17, 1991
R.DEAN14 [Rob Dean]          at 22:26 EST
 
Right you are, Carl.  Part of the problem, as I see it, is that there are too
many people who have already had a bad experience with Traveller in one form
or another.  These people will not be likely to buy the revision, and will
also provide negative word of mouth advertising to those who might be
considering the game.  I know that it's already a problem at my local store,
where people decide not to buy the system when they ask me about modules:  I
can't recommend things like Fighting Ships or COACC in good conscience, and
have no incentive to do so in any other way since I'm not one of the store's
owners or employees.

Even now, some of the best products, like the World Builder's Handbook, are
unavailable, which is also a problem.  "What do I need to start?" "Well,
you'll want the World Builder's Handbook, but it's out of print, a couple of
simple starting adventures, but there aren't any, and the rules.  Oh yeah,
with the rules, make sure you've got all seventeen pages of the errata sheets,
because you can't play the game without them. The Ref's Screen is helpful, but
it isn't available any more, and you should avoid the Fighting Ships and 101
Vehicles books because most of the stuff breaks the rules."  I exaggerate
somewhat for effect, but a speech like that is not likely to cause a new
prospect to drop the thrity dollars he's clutching, except maybe on the Star
Wars rpg.

So, the new revision is going to have to work hard to overcome a backlog of
resentment.  What are the odds, I wonder, against needing/wanting tons of
Original Traveller stuff to play T3?  As it is now, I regularly use the
original Aliens modules, Mayday, and sections of the rules like Trade and
Commerce.

Call me a whiner if you like, but I see these sorts of things as a real
problem.

Rob Dean
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 3
Message 404       Mon Nov 18, 1991
DIGEST.GROUP [Staff]         at 00:41 EST
 
Rob,

So what would you want if it were all up to you? No, really. You don't sound
too happy with the current game as it stands so do you think that GDW should
just call it quits and just be happy things lasted this long?

The reason I used the term "whining" is because there has been almost NO
positive responses to the announced game. Most people are saying why they
AREN'T going to buy it. Have any of you taken a good look at 2nd Ed. Twilight
2000 or Dark Conspiracy? They may not be your roleplaying cup of tea, but they
are a remarkable improvement over Megatraveller and even 2300AD. The system
works very well and has alot of playtesting behind it now. It seems like
Megatraveller has been one long attempt to fill the gaps and correct the
mistakes. Don't you think it will be nice to wipe the slate clean and start
again and maybe, just maybe, get it closer to right on the first try? The more
I think about it, the more excited I get!

Well, I hope that I haven't grated on anybody here to bad with my playing
"devil's advocate."


                                      Jay
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 3
Message 405       Mon Nov 18, 1991
J.FUGATE                     at 04:13 EST
 
As the person mostly responsible for the MegaTraveller revision and the
revised craft design system, perhaps I can shed some light on things?
I am painfully aware of the mess I made of certain parts of the MegaTraveller
system, and in my own opinion, several of the rules sections do not work out
very well in practice. My biggest problem was I knew the game well, and wrote
the revision for a gamer who was a familiar with the game as me. BIG mistake.

I have talked with Marc over the last two years that a revision of the
Traveller rules/background is in order -- partly to clean up the mess I made
of the MT revision. GDW introduced a lot of typos in MT, besides the mistakes
I made -- but I've also seen their typo problem improve  remarkably over the
last 2-3 years. The latest release of the  Twilight:2000 rules is of excellent
quality -- you have to really look to find ANY typos.

Speaking as a business person for a moment, GDW's move to revise the game
rules makes all kinds of sense. The revision will quite likely bring in NEW
gamers -- something Traveller desperately needs if it is going to survive.

GDW is also watching the gaming market, and trying to get in the new, younger
gamer. Us old-timers don't necessarily go in for the darker, more violent,
less structured environments that the young gamers go in for. But if GDW wants
Traveller to continue to live on, it will have to appeal to the new gamer.

Still, many loyal fans of the game currently exist. Speaking for myself, the
new direction with the background oriented toward the younger gamer does not
appeal to me (one reason DGP is going into hold mode on Traveller publishing).
GDW is clever, though, and I would expect them (hi Loren and Chuck) to
include a slant on the background to also intrigue us old-timers too. Seems
kind of dumb to alienate your current audience just to appeal to the new
crowd.

Just what that slant will be isn't yet clear, but I KNOW they are getting the
message. Perhaps some of you clever GEnie gamers could come up with a slant
that pleases all the gamers, old and new alike? I'd like to see the discussion
take that direction myself. I always prefer constructive discussions...

- --Joe Fugate, DGP

P.S. I do believe that AI has the right mix for the old and new gamer alike.
But then, I'm not exactly unbiased.


 ------------
 ************
Topic 29        Mon Nov 18, 1991
DIGEST.GROUP [Staff]         at 00:43 EST
Sub: The WISH List                          

You know that the new Traveller is coming soon to a game store near you - but
is you had your way, what would you want to see in it?
1 new messages.
 ************
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 29
Message 1         Mon Nov 18, 1991
DIGEST.GROUP [Staff]         at 00:47 EST

Okay, I did it. I started a new topic in hopes of promoting more  positive
discussion of the upcoming Traveller revision.

This topic is specifically for putting down ideas about what you  would like
to see in the new Traveller. Mayeb even things you DON'T want to see as long
as you stay positive about it. You can use this area to help collect your
thoughts about this in preparation for the upcoming RTC.

I would prefer not to see any explanations about "why I'm not buying the new
game."

'nuff said. Use it or don't   :)

                             Jay
 ------------




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From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #257: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
3120  18-Nov-91 Robert S. Dean    Still More GEnie stuff...^H << ************ T
3121  19-Nov-91 Robert S. Dean    Continued << ************ Topic 3 Thu Jun 01,
3122  19-Nov-91 burt@ptltd.COM    A third revision for the Third Imperium << We
3123  19-Nov-91 Robert S. Dean    Comments on Revision << A QUICK COMPARISON OF
3124  18-Nov-91 appel@soda.berkel Re: (3119) More from GEnie << >More from GEni
3125  19-Nov-91 Joe Heck          Notes to GDW on Genie << Hello Rob, This note

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3120
Date:     Mon, 18 Nov 91 23:34:08 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Still More GEnie stuff...^H

 ************

Topic 3         Thu Jun 01, 1989
J.FUGATE                     at 18:48 MDT
Sub: MegaTraveller - General Discussions    

This topic is to be a catch-all topic for any discussion that doesn't fit in
any other topic.
 ************
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 3
Message 406       Mon Nov 18, 1991
C.FAGO1 [Carl Fago]          at 20:50 EST
 
Jay,

  Maybe you could say a couple of words about what the "system" is with T2k or
D.C. that will be used for Star Viking.  I have neither game and so I have
little idea what will be inherited.

  The main skepticisms that have come through regarding S.V. is based upon the
past record of GDW regarding Traveller.  For MT, this would be lack of
coherent ship design, lack of robot design rules, poor editing/proofreading,
poor internal consistency, etc.

  These problems don't appear to have been solved in T2k or D.C. (neither, I
believe, would have ship design or robot design, editing/proofreading on these
I know nothing about.)  I personally don't have a _big_ heartache with the
character generation rules (beyond lack of internal consistancy and
proofreading), nor am I all that upset about the task-method.

  So, what _will_ S.V. attempt to improve?

  I post his here vice the new topic because this is a generally negative post
(unfortunately.)  Though I am _very_ interested in the answers.

                              *-=Carl=-*
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 3
Message 407       Mon Nov 18, 1991
M.TURNAGE1                   at 22:59 EST
 
Jay: Nothing wrong with playing Devil's Advocate..._someone_ should, and
you've got the industry experience to understand both sides.

  I'm trying to adopt a wait-and-see attitude, but I still can't get over a
couple of problems I have with the revision:

  For one, the compelte switch in the game system...while MegaTraveller was a
much needed revision, 90% of the old Traveller material (I don't count
background material...a settings is a setting, regardless of game system) was
still compatible.  That which wasn't was usually superseeded by MT or didn't
really need much in the ways of rules (one of the blessings of the task
system). I see no way to avoid making a great, great amount of material
(especially by non-GDW publishers) obsolete.

  For another, I have some real problems with the T2k 2nd ed./DC system (for
brevity's sake hereby referred to as the New System -- NS), at least as for
Traveller.  The main one is that there is _no_ task system...the semi-task
based skill system in NS does not work all that well, and lessens the impact
of a characters skills.  (BTW, I think this is the #1 problem with a 2300 - NS
conversion).  I like the system, but I don't feel its appropriate for
Traveller.

  I do like the idea that the starship combat rules are being completely
revised...the #1 problem with MT right now, IMHO.  This would be a good idea
regardless of a revision of the rest of the system.

  You asked Rob what he'd do...(putting in my .2 Cr).  I think _I_ would go
ahead and do a 3rd edition/revision...but _with_ the same general system.  Do
it as a single, large volume (though there'd be problem with costs, here). 
Get good, good art (the biggest attention-grabbing device for a game is a good
visual hook...the gothicness of Cthulu, the Enterprise for SFB, the weirdness
for DC, or the robots of Battletech).  Go for a _lot_ of exposure...novels are
the best way to me (Dark Conspiracy or Battletech would be nowhere near as
popular as they are right now without Mike Stackpole's novels, IMHO).

  Put _everything_ in this one, like the old Traveller Book (Best thing that
happened to Traveller, IMHO).  Basic character creation, task system & other
game mechanics (combat, healing, etc.), a streamlined system creation rules,
streamlined vehicular design/combat rules (Character level only...no need to
have rules to handle entire fleets), and, _maybe_ a small amount of
background. Put the more detailed version of rules in supplements...you want
the more detailed rules, get them there.  If not, you've got enough already to
get by.

  I'd do it as a campaign background volume (ie, Post-Rebellion Sourcebook),
system/world creation volume, fleet combat/large combat design volume, and
advanced character creation volume.  I think DGP's idea for AI, with all the
needed basic rules in one set and more detailed rules later on, if wanted, is
the way to go.

  Note, the method I was talking about seems awful similar to the way GDW did
Traveller over the years...that was intentional.  I think that's the best way
to do it, only taking much less time.

  I understand many of the reasons for a new edition, but I fear there's some
mistaken assumptions.  I don't see the new players there...let's face it, the
vast majority of beginners are going to start on D&D in one of its various
incarnations (At least the ones that will buy games...the ones that count in
this case).  In a year or so, once they feel more confident, they'll move on
to something that's more to their tastes.  Many of them will _not_ be moving
on to SF games.  The trick is to get the ones that do to lock on to Traveller
(in whichever incarnation).

  I don't think simpler rules are the answer (Its never taken me more than
twenty minutes to explain the system to _anyone_). COMPLETENESS and
INTEGRATION are the answers!  I want everything I need to run the system
there, and I want the rules to be internally consistent.

  Oh well, I've rambled long enough.

Respectfully,

Mark

 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 3
Message 408       Mon Nov 18, 1991
R.DEAN14 [Rob Dean]          at 23:09 EST
 
3-398  Loren Wiseman says:

>     Let me point out one thing that seems to be generating some mis- >
understanding here: we will not be changing over to the Twilight: 2000 >
background history, just a variant of the rule mechanics. We want to  re- >
instill the original excitement the game engendered, cleaning up rules >
problems and smoothing out hassles.

Actually, I understood that.  As you'll see below, that's not really the part
that is worrying me.

3-404: Jay Adan says

> So what would you want if it were all up to you? No, really. You don't sound
> too happy with the current game as it stands so do you think that GDW should
> just call it quits and just be happy things lasted this long?

Since you started the topic for positive comments and suggestions, I'll post 
most of my answer to this up there.  Do _I_ think GDW should drop the idea and
 let Traveller die quietly?  H*** no.  Do I have confidence in their recent 
track record? Not really.  That's why I'm nervous.  I happen to be a fan of
Space:1889...

> Have any of you taken a good look at 2nd Ed. Twilight:2000 or Dark  >
Conspiracy? They may not be your roleplaying cup of tea, but they are a  >
remarkable improvement over Megatraveller and even 2300AD. 

As it happens, I've got T:2000/2.  Dark Conspiracy doesn't intrigue me in the 
slightest so I haven't bought it.  I've got 2300AD, and I've got 
Traveller:2300.  I'd go so far as to say that 2300AD is a substantial improve-
ment over Traveller:2300.  So much so that I can't figure why GDW released the
 latter in the form they did.  There are only a few things that bother me
about  the T:2000 system, and most of those have to do with how well 2000/2
fits my  view of that game's reality versus how well 2000/1 fit it.  I can
elaborate if  you like--my main problem is that I don't think the 2000/2
characters are  capable enough, compared to the old characters, which wouldn't
be a problem in  a Trav adaptation.  What does bother me is the potential
problem of converting  a substantial investment in old work into the new
system, again, and that  characters may not be compatible.  I still haven't
finished converting my High  Guard fleets into MT...

> It seems like Megatraveller has been one long attempt to fill the gaps and 
> correct the mistakes. Don't you think it will be nice to wipe the slate  >
clean and start again and maybe, just maybe, get it closer to right on the  >
first try? 

I might, if I had any confidence that it would work on the first try.  I felt 
like I was burned by the 'two versions of 2300' mess, the original edition of 
MT, and the collapse of Space:1889.  I didn't like the way the background time
 clock was reset back to July, 2000 on the second edition of T:2000.  Would I 
be willing to do something constructive about it.  You bet!  I would be happy 
to be a playtester for any version of the thing, just because I love the game.
 I'm also reasonably confident that many of the members of the Internet Travel-
 ler Mailing List would also be willing to provide commentary on game systems 
during testing in any level of detail that you might care for.  

The wiping the slate clean part is what worries me the most.  Look at the 
situation now.  We still do not have, after almost five years, as much back-
ground information as was available in 1985.  The Shattered Imperium is a 
potentially interesting setting, but a referee doesn't have enough _Traveller 
unique_ information available to him/her to make it real or interesting to a 
player.  We don't know much about any of the factions beyond the capsule 
writeups in the Rebellion Sourcebook.  There isn't an introductory adventure 
as good as THE TRAVELLER ADVENTURE or even TARSUS or BELTSTRIKE available for 
use by referees who aren't old timers.  If all the resources are put into 
working on the rules, who's going to do the modules, supplements and advne-
tures that a role playing game seems to need in the current market to attract 
new players?

3-405 Joe Fugate says:

> As the person mostly responsible for the MegaTraveller revision and the >
revised craft design system, perhaps I can shed some light on things? > ...My
biggest problem was I knew the game well, and wrote the revision for > a gamer
who was a familiar with the game as me. BIG mistake.

Oddly enough, I happen to like the revised craft design system.  It's one of 
the few things that I would preserve in large parts if I was doing the revi-
sion.  Now the craft combat system(s), those are a problem!

More comments in the new topic...

Rob Dean

 ------------
 ************
Topic 29        Mon Nov 18, 1991
DIGEST.GROUP [Staff]         at 00:43 EST
Sub: The WISH List                          

You know that the new Traveller is coming soon to a game store near you - but
is you had your way, what would you want to see in it?
 ************
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 29
Message 3         Mon Nov 18, 1991
C.FAGO1 [Carl Fago]          at 20:50 EST
 
First, a summary of what is already planned for the Traveller revision is in
order so that we don't tread over old ground.

Also, and I mentioned this in Email to GDW, what is the main objective of the
revision?  What is the target audience?  And what is already set in stone or
reasonably so?

                                        *-=Carl=-*
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 29
Message 4         Mon Nov 18, 1991
R.DEAN14 [Rob Dean]          at 23:13 EST
 
Jay asks what we'd like to see in a new Traveller.  A leading question if I 
ever heard one.  I'll try to keep this upbeat, and differentiate in some cases
 between things that are a matter of taste, things that I think are a matter
of  sheer commercial necessity and things that I think the game would be lost
(as  a game) without.

Let me start by commenting that I'm at least partially what one might think of
 as a 'reality purist'.  That is, I think that a game which states that ships 
travel at 1-G constant acceleration should be take notice of the fact that 
this means that travel times between planets will be measured in days, and 
travel times to jump points and so forth, in hours.  Combat rules for space-
ships should reflect the view of reality of the rest of the game.  I can 
handle something being abstracted (ala High Guard or Imperium's near/far 
rules).  I can handle something as complex <?> as Mayday.  What I have a hard 
time with is compromises like the MT space combat rules.  Since Traveller is a
 game of science fiction, I feel that it is acceptable to ask that the game 
pick a set of 'rules of reality' and then stick to them.  Good sf books do 
this.

I would hope that the new rules would cover creation of characters from a wide
 variety of worlds and backgrounds.  The rules should cover personal combat, 
but not in such excessive detail as to make the use of guns the first recourse
 in problem solving...in fact, I'll go so far as to say that I see no particu-
lar reason why the rules for combat should be any more detailed than the rules
 for resolving any other skill use (heresy!!).  Especially since this aspect 
should be covered by the miniatures rules, which I understand are already in 
preparation.  One of the great attractions of the game has always been the 
character's potential ownership of a starship, allowing for that broad, free-
wheeling, multi-world, "This isn't Kansas anymore" flavor to the game.  Thus, 
ships should be covered in at least as much detail as they are now, if not a 
bit more.  A ship combat system should be provided that focuses on the prob-
lems of the typical player type ship--a scout or a free trader (or, as I 
suppose will be the case in Star Viking, an 800 ton cruiser).  Leave the fleet
 actions for a supplement.  As it stands now (in MT), a typical player vs. bad
 guys space combat leads you to combat table with three possible results for a
 hit: Weapon-1, Fuel-1, and Maneuver-1.  Not terribly exciting.  Since travel 
to different worlds is such a large part of the game, rules should be in place
 to help the referee detail and distinguish the worlds.  I think that the
World  Builder's Handbook does a pretty good job of this in the current
system...if  that's too much detail for the basic rules, then it should
certainly be one of  the early supplements.  Even in what I visualize as the
Star Viking setting,  trade will be a strong motivation for travel.  Thus I'd
like to see a fairly  extensive set of trade rules, which should be based on
trading actual objects  rather than Industrial Goods, TL15, Va, Hi...more like
the old 'thirty tons of  silver' system.  Some version of a vehicle design
system should be  included--the present one, despite its shortcomings is
pretty good about  allowing a referee to work up a few exotic pieces of
equipment to add to the  flavor of an unusual plant.  I'd hate to see all
planets using M-1A1 tank  clones, just because we were now compatible with
Twilight:2000.  In keeping  with the science fiction theme, robots ought to be
part of the main rules, as  equipment even if not covered by design rules. 
Again, maybe reality demands a  compromise: Put an equipment list or simple
design system in the basic game,  and sell a detailed but still compatible
system as a supplement.  Background  information and equipment lists: as much
as will fit, without an undue empha- sis on military hardware.  Enough
information about all the major races to  allow the use of them as NPCs at
least.  

How to package all of this:  Well, I'd like to see the following:

Core rules Miniatures rules with interface (I know this is in the plans
already). Miniatures for the rules!  (Why don't I play Striker?) Miniatures
for typical characters Fleet/system battles boardgame Boardgame compatible
with the miniatures rules, but at a higher level of
  abstraction (I'd hate to try to loot a planet while trying to keep track
  of individual vehicles.) Alien supplements Detailed planet supplements Add-
on vehicle supplement Predesigned vehicles/robots supplements Introductory
adventure(s)

In terms of what's out there now, what I'd like to see is rules that include 
the World Builder's Handbook and selected sections of the Starship Operator's 
Manual, a supplement equal to 101 Vehicles, 101 Robots and 101 Starships all 
in one, the completed series of DGP Aliens modules, a Traveller Adventure, and
 a Tarsus or a Beltstrike, the awaited Seeker Equipment guide, and some of the
 wargaming stuff.  

This post is going to be long enough.  Anyone else?

Rob Dean

 ------------





------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3121
Date:     Tue, 19 Nov 91 9:21:03 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Continued

 ************
Topic 3         Thu Jun 01, 1989
J.FUGATE                     at 18:48 MDT
Sub: MegaTraveller - General Discussions    

This topic is to be a catch-all topic for any discussion that doesn't fit in
any other topic.
 ************
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 3
Message 409       Mon Nov 18, 1991
J.KUNDERT [Farstar]          at 23:51 EST
 
SUBJECTS:
 -THE revision; Good, Bad and Conclusions
 -revisions in general

   Before I get any further, I admit to not owning any of the Twilight system
games.  I have played both Twilight and 2300AD several times however, and I
have a "Christmas Morning" attitude toward nearly anything which appears in my
local game store, so I have perused Dark Conspiracy. I expect to buy one of
these games in the near future, in order to be more informed about the
revision.

 Good points about the revision:
   -Could attract many new players.
   -Taking Dark Conspiracy and Twilight: 2000 as models, we can expect to have
pictures of all the weapons and major equipment.
   -With GDW doing the revision, we should see more enthusiastic support for
Traveller (from GDW).
   -The playing-card-based NPC Personality system will become a part of
Traveller.
   -The "re-generification" of Traveller could allow for the inclusion of non-
Traveller technologies.  A section (echoed from GURPS Space) could detail the
different ways of dealing with star travel, both STL (Grav Drive, Thrusters,
LightSails, Ramships, and Generation Rockets) and FTL (Warp, Jump, Gates,
Wormholes, Stutterwarp, Infinite Improbability Drive, etc.).  Vector-thrust
(ala 2300AD) can be used as an alternative to Gravitics (in some cases), and
the "One Small Step" article can be made an official part of the game.
   -As mentioned in the previous item, previously published articles can be
incorporated into the rules at the start (assuming they are close enough
system-wise).  "One Small Step" and Wet Navy come to mind immediately, as does
an article about prototype-TL weapons in an issue of Space Gamer (one of the
last SJGames issues).

 Bad points about the revision:
   -No more Marc Miller.
   -Traveller has (at least temporarily) lost Rob Caswell as its technical
illustrator (this is not _directly_ tied to the revision, but is related, and
IS bad news).
   -Could cause the loss of many current Traveller players.
   -According to some research done by a TML member (I forget who), the
existing Traveller skill system is actually more realistic in some respects
than the Twilight skill system.
   -A system revision is like a U.S. Constitutional Convention.  Once started,
nothing that has gone before can be taken for granted.  If the ENTIRE system
is redone, all craft designs and sector listings could become obsolete, as the
rules for their creation change.
   -The oldest surviving SYSTEM in role-playing will have died. Traveller pre-
dates the AD&D Players Handbook by a year (I don't count the Monster Manual;
it was only a badly timed supplement), and no other game from that era
survives in anything like its original form (if it survives at all).
   -HIWG will be stripped of about half of its chances for publication (of
background, primarily).  Those who write scenarios will be largely uneffected
once they switch systems.

 Conclusions about the Revision:
   With the above points in mind, there are obviously some sections of the
rules than should not be changed.  Sections like world building and craft
design should produce results identical to the MegaTraveller rules.  How they
REACH those results might be worked on (the Shipbuilder's project being an
example), but too much change in the final product will totally invalidate
many years of work by GDW, DGP, HIWG, and hundreds of Traveller referees.
   One approach to simplify things (at first), would be to provide some 20 to
30 craft (with MT-style descriptions) in whatever will pass for the Basic Set.
This gives beginners a collection to start with, without sending them into
shock with 40+ pages of design rules.  Then, similar to what was done with
Dark Conspiracy (DarkTech), produce a book that covers the vehicle rules in
detail.  THIS book would contain ALL the construction rules, from robots thru
boats, planes and motorcycles to scoutships, fighters and dreadnoughts.  Well
okay, maybe it won't all FIT in one book, but this material should be released
as close together as possible. I waited 15 years for boats, and I don't want
to wait another 5 years to see them placed into the revision.  Having one of
these books reach Striker-level design (regarding lasers, Mass drivers,
warheads, etc.) might not be a bad idea, but the idea is to provide a layer
above this, where players can stop if they like.  The progression looks like
this:

  -'Canned' craft descriptions
  -Basic craft design (modularized?)
  -Detailed craft design (including robots, aircraft and watercraft, and
                          non-standard-tech space craft)
  -Ironmongery Design (ala Striker)
  -Hand Weapon design (an official conversion from 3G would suffice)

   The point is that a referee can stop at any of these steps, but not fear
incompatibility with a "deep designer" (someone like Scott Olson or Rob Dean)
who designs his craft lasers from the ground up.


 Revisions in general:
   Compared to the rest of the gaming world, 3 revisions in 15 years isn't bad
at all, and 2 revisions in 5 years is hardly the worst on record <finger-
pointing at certain other companies>.
   As a side note, it would be the third 'go-round for character generation
and craft (not ship) design, and only the second version of any craft/mass
combat rules (the section in Ref's Companion is a teaser, not a system).  This
would be either the fourth or FIFTH version of the ship-building rules (Book
2, High Guard, High Guard 2nd Ed, MegaTraveller, "Neo"Traveller) depending on
your opinion of the two editions of High Guard.  The ship combat system would
reach version 5 or 6 with NeoTraveller (add Mayday to the above list), and
personal combat would reach version 6 (Book 1, Snapshot, AHL, Striker,
MegaTrav, NeoTrav).

   Since the revision is a fact-to-be, do it RIGHT, and do it ONCE.

 Farstar
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 3
Message 410       Tue Nov 19, 1991
J.KUNDERT [Farstar]          at 00:35 EST
 
Ahem...
 By "the new topic" Rob means newly opened Topic 29: "The WISH List"
 Farstar
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 3
Message 411       Tue Nov 19, 1991
DIGEST.GROUP [Staff]         at 00:43 EST
 
Yes! Things are really starting to move.  Mark, Glad to hear your input. Even
if you are basically negative about the switch of systems (not a bad thing)
I'm glad you at least are familiar with it enough to know WHY. You know the
game system better than I do, I'm sure.

I like Farstar's last line - Do it RIGHT, and do it ONCE! Somebody want to
make a banner and send it to GDW?

One of the things I personally like about the New System is the feeling you
get for your your character when generation is over. You don't just get skills
based on your chosen profession. You have to qualify for that profession
first. This may mean that you have to go to college first or do some outside
activities to improve a particular area you might be deficient in. Once you
are completed you have a really good idea of what your character has been
doing since about the age of 17. I always found the Traveller/MT system (and
even 2300AD) to be a little abstract. It gave you a handfull of skills but
didn't tell you too much about where they came from (2300AD is much worse than
MT in this respect).

I'm really enjoying this exchange. Keep it up!

- - Jay
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 3
Message 412       Tue Nov 19, 1991
B.BORICH [LA TERRORIST]      at 03:59 EST
 
Loren,

    Glad to see your posts. I'm also glad that you are actively asking for
comments and planning to explain what you plan to do for the new traveller
revision.
    Baring unforeseen events you can expect me at the conference, though I
might just settle for listening initially depending on how things heat up.
    By the way I've got some stuff heading your way (well to Michelle
Sturgeon, Nilsen might want to look at it too along with the previous issues
which I sent to Michelle, I'm talking about the fanzines I put out). I think
I've got some other stuff I should send your way now that the revision is
official. I'll try to get it out this week.
 ------------
 ************
Topic 29        Mon Nov 18, 1991
DIGEST.GROUP [Staff]         at 00:43 EST
Sub: The WISH List                          

You know that the new Traveller is coming soon to a game store near you - but
is you had your way, what would you want to see in it?
 ************
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 29
Message 5         Mon Nov 18, 1991
M.MIKESH                     at 23:47 EST
 
      Joe remarked in 3:405, "Us old-timers don't necessarily go in for
 the darker, more violent, less structured environments that the young
 gamers go in for."
      I'm not so sure if 'young gamers' shouldn't be 'current fad'.  In
 a few years, it could be a dead as disco.
      But terminology aside, I think its very clear from the comments
 on this board that there is a real danger of alienating the
 'old-timers', and I don't think its something Traveller can afford.
 From what I can tell, Traveller has not had an appreciable turn-over
 of players.  It established a core group over a decade ago, and that
 is what has kept it alive all these years.  Loose them, and Traveller
 might not be around for long.
      Yet stagnation is another danger.  GDW should be free to be
 innovating and try things to bring in new blood.
      The best solution I can come up with right now is to let GDW wipe
 the slate and do what they will. Let the main body of the old Imperium
 follow its dark future.  BUT, maintain a very different and more
 traditional setting behind-the-claw.
      To Trailing, the Imperium wallows in decay and ruin, a prime
 setting for GDW's new initiative.
      To Spinward, the attitude is one of growth and vitality.  Here,
 the flavor of Classic Traveller is preserved.
      Players can then gravitate to the side they prefer most.  GDW
 doesn't have to commit itself either way, but balance support between
 the two according to how things really go.
                                                                   MIKE
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 29
Message 7         Tue Nov 19, 1991
DIGEST.GROUP [Staff]         at 00:57 EST
 
Good. Y'all seem to have the right idea here. Sorry if it it is a leading
question Rob but I wanted this topic to  go in a specific direction.   :)

If anybody is wondering wht I'm concerned with this at all (since I've already
admitted to not being that involved with Traveller at all up  to now). I
consider myself to be a potential purchaser of the new game. I've been working
on and off on a conversion for 2300AD to the new system as I feel it to be
superior to the one given. I've always been turned off by the huge volumes of
information in Megatraveller without an easy way for a new player to digest
(excuse the pun) it all. Without many SF games on the market it would be nice
to see the new game do well.

As to the stuff that is already set in stone... I don't know any more then you
do. I thought that Star VIking was going to be specifically a miniature game.
Am I wrong? Where's Loren when you need him? There IS supposed to be a novel
(according to Marc Miller) possibly written by Chuck Gannon. Other than that,
I don't know.

Personally, I would like to see starship combat rules done something like the
2300/Starcruiser setup (except maybe playtested this time  around). I would
like to see that any illustrations for equipment and weapons that will
translate over to the new game be taken from the existing stuff done for TD
and MTJ.

Thas' all for now...

- - Jay
 ------------

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3122
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 91 12:34:51 EST
From: burt@ptltd.COM (Burton Choinski.)
Subject: A third revision for the Third Imperium

Well, I guess I should throw in my Cr2 (Lv2, for 2300 people) about T3...

I'm all for it, IF it stays with the feel of orignal Traveller.  I bought
2300ad, and like the system.  I recentlyu started an Old traveller game,
any really on bought the Ref's guide (mainly for the ship construction rules,
which are broke, but have some nice things about them).

As such, I don't have much invested in MT (which looks seriously broke),
so would be willing to pay for T2000 rev 2 quality rules and information
for the Imperial Universe.

Is there some EMAIL address I can send comments and suggestions about T3
to GDW?  
===============================================================================
On the subject of what I want...

   1) Good vehicle rules: Striker was nice, but incomplete in some things.
      MT added some niceties, but chucked other nice things from Striker.
      
   2) Good ship construction rules: Some of the stuff in MT was a value add,
      other stuff was cruft.  DON'T FORCE MERGE Starships/Spaceplanes with
      ground vehicles with grav vehicles.  I feel there was no need to 
      combine these two into a "universal" construction system.  Having a
      different system and design charts for Spacecraft/Aircraft/Ground Craft/
      Watercraft is not a bad thing.  Just 'cuz Grav Vehicles fuzz the line
      between ground and air is NOT a good reason to have ONE system.
      In this regard, Striker+High Guard was the best setup.

   3) Keep the "History Based" career generation, but merge the "term based"
      and "year based" systems.  Both have their good points, but the term
      careers jam you on the skills and the year careers have too much damn 
      rolling.  Some abstraction, would help this.

   4) Time (way past time) to alter the basic characteristics.  T1 is a 1977
      game system, very much showing it's age.  SOC should be removed
      as a characteristic, instead made a "thing" that is gained at certain
      levels, like a skill.  For a good example of this, look at "Mechwarrior"
      by Fasa.  Maybe characters can roll their basic character, then get
      X amount of points to flesh out the character.

      My suggestion for characteristics?
         Strength - Yeah, gotta have this
         Dexterity - and this, manual dexterity
         Endurance - general stamina and constitution
         Intelligence - I think this should be changed to Intellect
         Alertness - general ability to notice things
         Education - As before, but rolled differently (based on on a slight
           random factor plus modifiers for college and/or career

      Social is no longer a characteristic.

   5) While 2d6 is okay, perhaps a 2d10 scale could be used if you want to
      retain the curve, or 1d20.  1d10 is too flat and granular.
===============================================================================
Burton Choinski                                       Phoenix Technologies, LTD
"All opinions are mine, not Phoenix's"                            Cambridge, MA
===============================================================================


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3123
Date:     Tue, 19 Nov 91 16:08:29 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Comments on Revision

      A QUICK COMPARISON OF TWILIGHT:2000 (2nd Ed) and MEGATRAVELLER
                     AS APPLIED TO THE REVISION TOPIC

With all the discussion going on, I decided I better have another look at 
Twilight:2000 just so that I could discuss the issue from a position of 
lesser ignorance.

As far as I can see it, the main things that a Traveller set of rules would 
use from Twilight:2000 are the character generation system (about 35 pages 
including a lot of illustrations and World War II/Earth specific material 
that would need to be completely altered), the "How to Be a Referee" (13 
pages, fairly generic, but does include 2 pages on skill use resolution), 
and the combat rules (35 pages, but does not cover a lot of science fic-
tional material presumably needed by Traveller.)  That's 83 pages out of 
280, and it includes a lot of material that would need substantial rework. 
Is it really worth sacrificing almost complete compatibility with all 
previous referees' work and existing products in order to provide a poten-
tial new player a boost up by letting him roll 2d6-2 instead of 2d6 in 
character generation, and 1d10 instead of 2d6 for task resolution?  I don't 
think so.  I know that I have played a lot of games, but once the whole 
concept of being the gamemaster and winging it with no more than a vague 
idea of "Simple, Routine, Difficult, Formidable"  and a few die rolls has 
been absorbed (rather Difficult (-:), the additional business of shifting 
between 1d10, 2d6 or Skill(d6) between different games is fairly minor.

A Twilight:2000 character has six characteristics generated by rolling 2d6-
2 (with a reroll on a zero result).  A Traveller character has six charac-
teristics generated by rolling 2d6, and can gain values of up to 15 in the 
generation system.  The difference is that T:2000 substitutes Charisma for 
Trav's Social Standing.   Both games now use four year 'terms' to add 
experience.  Most T:2000 terms will give a character 3-4 skill levels.  
Most Traveller terms will give a character about the same.  In T:2000 a 
skill is functionally limited by the value of its 'controlling characteris-
tic'.  That is, if I have a character with a strength of 1, it will be 
difficult gain a high level of skill in Small Arms (Rifle) for an example.  
(Hmmm...).  In Traveller, a character is limited to a total of his educa-
tion and intelligence in skill levels.  I have an unsubstantiated (mathe-
matically) gut feeling that a skill level in Traveller is worth more than a 
skill level in T:200).  (See success chances below.)  In T:2000, a charac-
ter gets seven hit locations calculated on his body.  Traveller used an 
abstract system.  I have a few problems with the execution of the system in 
T:2000, but there's nothing too terrible about the idea of hit locations 
(other than that fact that they will be mostly irrelevant to a non-combat 
heavy game).  A T:2000 character with average strength and constitution 
values of 5 will have 10 head hit points, and 30 chest hit points.  A 
critical wound to the chest (more than 2*h.p.) will knock him unconscious.  
That is to say, 61+ points of damage.  This is the same value required to 
render an elephant unconscious, and can be delivered by 3 average 
damage .50 caliber machine gun bullets, 9 average damage M-16 5.56N bul-
lets, 18 average 9mm pistol bullets, or 25 average arrows.  "It's safe to 
charge them--all they have is a hunting bow..."

Regarding skill levels, I present the following chart, showing the chances 
of various outcomes using the T:2000 system.

Skill    Outstanding Success  Success   Failure   Catastrophic Failure
  1              0%             10%       36%               54%
  2              0%             20%       40%               40%
  3              0%             30%       42%               28%
  4              0%             40%       42%               18%
  5             10%             40%       40%               10%
  6             20%             40%       36%                4%
  7             30%             40%       30%                0%
  8             40%             40%       20%                0%
  9             50%             40%       10%                0%
 10             60%             40%        0%                0%

Since a typical very skilled Traveller has a three or a four in his main 
skill, it can be seen that a Traveller skill level must be worth more than 
a T:2000 skill level (otherwise most ship's engineers would damage their 
drives on a routine repair attempt 28% of the time.)  So,m a typical T:2000 
character is probably less capable at any given age than a typical Travel-
ler character.  This, by the way, is my major objection to T:2000/2nd as a 
revision of T:2000/1st---given the background, I thought that having par-
ties made up of extremely capable characters was quite reasonable.  A 
T:2000/2 party wouldn't last very long up against a T:2000/1 party.

If a revision consisted only of grafting on a combat system based around 
the seven hit locations and so forth, I'd have no strong objection.  After 
all, it's been done before.  As someone pointed out, a NewTrav would repre-
sent the fifth or sixth personal combat system.  I think that this could be 
done in such a way as to leave the current character values the same--a two 
point shift in the average value of characteristics can be compensated for 
by a shift in weapons' damage values, if necessary.  I think a move toward 
a less random character generation system would be acceptable, providing 
that the average number of skills gained stayed about the same.  I think a 
move to the d10 skill resolution system and away from the 2d6 universal 
task system is a bad idea, unless compensated for by an increase in the 
average level of skills, which would be a bad idea because of the compati-
bility problems.  Tasks are one of the few non-problem areas in MT, at 
least in routine usage.  (I usually trim back on the fumble rolls when in 
actual play.) 

Enough for now.

Rob Dean




------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3124
Subject: Re: (3119) More from GEnie 
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 91 21:47:29 -0800
From: appel@soda.berkeley.edu

>More from GEnie...I'll send my response to the last here to the TML, too,
>when it gets written.  If you have comments, I'll send them back that way.

Rob:

I'd appreciate it if you would send this comment back towards GEnie.

- --

In regard to the new revision of Traveller, I have very much mixed
feelings.  On the one hand, I am quite pleased that GDW is going to
fix the awful mess that the MegaTraveller rules have become.  I frown
somewhat upon the fact that the system is being changed, because it
will cause to modify a lots of things in my notebooks on Traveller,
but I'm willing to approach that with an open mind.  I've played the
Twilight 2000 system about a half-a-dozen times, and I remember it
being a fairly quick, easy to use system.  I'd definitely classify it
as an improvement over the current Traveller system.  

However, what does displease me about the change was the apparent
desire to uproot the entire world view that has been presented for
fifteen years.  If the Imperium is effectively thrown away, in return
for this "Star Viking" campaign, set nominally within the same
history-structure, you're going to lose the support of almost every
old Traveller player, something that will be impossible to recoup with
a new, younger audience.

In conclusion, what I'd like to see for a third edition?  A new
system, if it's cleaner and better.  Books that are better proofread
and hold together as a whole.  The Imperium Background, as we know it.
Lots of supplements focusing on the background of the game, not the
mechanics (ie stuff like DGP's excellent Alien Supplements, and
the Imperial Encyclopedia, not 101 Vehicles and Fighting Ships).

Shannon




------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3125
Date:         Tue, 19 Nov 91 13:17:13 CST
From: Joe Heck <CSPECJH@UMCVMB.missouri.edu>
Subject:      Notes to GDW on Genie

Hello Rob,
This note is kind of in response to the TML and the GENIE postings you've
been placing. I print out all the TML for a local group of MT fans here
in Columbia, so this is actually coming from about 5 different people. Would
you mind passing this along to Genie and the GDW staff?

Our biggest worry about the "new" version of MT is that the old data we
have will become - again - obsolete, and we'll spend forever trying to learn
a new gaming "system". We found long ago how 'broke' the old rules were, and
just passed over them as best we could, but another revision in rules will
slow things down again. We're also very worried that the new product will have
quite a few faults in it. MT wasn't put together well, and discovering HOW
to do things was often more difficult than just faking it outright - which
ended up causing numerous disagreements among our gaming group.

I guess what it boils down to is this: Will we be able to utilize the old
material from 'classic traveller' and the stuff that we've developed out of
MT in this new version? Or is it a completely new investment in a new game
with an old theme?

Thanks,
          Joe Heck

Thanks Rob

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

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Subject: TML Bundle #258: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
3126  19-Nov-91 Robert S. Dean    The Revision Sage, Part 7 << Part Seven, at l
3127  20-Nov-91 Robert S. Dean    Revision Comments from GEnie, Part 8 << *****
3128  20-Nov-91 sm@ncrsecp.copenh  << Confirm Delivery: Yes Date: Wed, 20 Nov 9
3129  20-Nov-91 bonnevil@stolaf.e Revision / Editing << Along the lines of the 
3130  20-Nov-91 Hans Rancke-Madse New Traveller << I assume that some kindly so
3131  20-Nov-91 surman@zulu.lgs.l Traveller Observations << Here's a suggestion
3132  20-Nov-91 Andy Hewson       Hot Fusion & Gyro-stabilisation << OA Hi TML 
3133  20-Nov-91 Adrian Hurt       Re: Ancient Weapons and Hokey Religions << Ri
3134  21-Nov-91 TML Administrator GEnie <-> TML Traffic << Rob Dean and Carl Fa
3135  21-Nov-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Scott's Traveller Wish List << Dear Santa, I'

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3126
Date:     Tue, 19 Nov 91 21:18:40 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  The Revision Sage, Part 7

Part Seven, at least, counting by the file numbers I'm saving this stuff in.
I believe that I've only omitted one message from Topic 3 here, the one that
contains the comparison with T:2000 that I posted directly here earlier today.

Note Loren Wiseman's message:  keep those cards and letters coming.

Rob Dean


 ************
Topic 29        Mon Nov 18, 1991
Sub: The WISH List                          

You know that the new Traveller is coming soon to a game store near you - but
is you had your way, what would you want to see in it?
 ************
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 29
Message 8         Tue Nov 19, 1991
B.BORICH [LA TERRORIST]      at 08:13 EST
 
   Hmmm, so little time and so much to do.......

   Attempting to ignore all other comments and taking a real fast look (though
probably incomplete).

   Well here's a possible book layout:

The 3 basic:
   Character generation, Combat (land, sea, air, space; integrated),
     travelling (excuse the pun) and Medical (including 'borgs, yeah
     here's your chance for Cyberpunkism, but I'd suggest a better
     job than 2300AD).
   Background Book, Trade and Commerce rules.
   Equipment Book (guns, vehicles, regular stuff, using DGP's equipment
                  form (and possibly Rob Prior's one for vehicles)).

The Expansion:
   World Builders handbook (it would be nice to see a true alien system
                            type generation rather than Trav's oxy-nitro).
   Vehicle construction book (land, sea, air, space, and 'bots; no bugs
                             and clear examples; and striker weapons
                             would be nice).
   MTA books [I'm tired of seeing humans everywhere I land :), the cover of
Challenge 53(?) had more aliens on it than I've seen in Traveller and at first
I thought it was supposed to be a Star Wars cover till I read the blurb; In
Star Wars it aliens, aliens everywhere and Traveller it's humans, humans
everywhere. That's the feeling I get anyway].
    Sector Book (I'm still awaiting the one from the rebellion period, I'd
also like to see the worlds change as time goes on, maybe with something like
Torg's feedback system to give the idea of the changing universe as time
passes. TNS by itself is too abstract).


    [Aside, I'd like to still see GE as this would be still useful regardless
of the background].

    Anyway, first off, I AM NOT PLANNING ON HOLDING GDW TO IT'S DEADLINE, I'D
RATHER SEE IT DONE RIGHT THAN RUSHED OUT, I'D ALSO LIKE TO SEE THE SUPPORT
PRODUCTS COME OUT IN A TIMELY MATTER AFTERWARDS.

    Okay, enough shouting for now. By support products I mean supplements and
most especially adventure projects. The first adventure product should be a
campaign type book or a series of adventures. Enough to get the GM going for
awhile.

    <Modifying Character Generation rules> I like the flexibility of the DC
design system, in that I can create the character I want with the skills I
want. But I also like the promotion, medal and yearly event system of
Traveller. There are two ways to go about this that I can see of offhand, one
way is to retain the table system, but just allow the character to pick off
the table. The other is to have just the skill list like DC, with a
possibility each term of attending a special school and getting more skill
points in a related set.  Offhand I'd prefer dropping as many tables as
possible, this would make it easier to modify the character generation system
to my whims and fancies and easier to create new professions (and tailor the
character to the world they might have lived on).
    So much for the quick comment.
    <Modifying vehicle/starship construction rules> I'd just like a realistic
bug free version here, with the addition of Mark Gelinas additions to starship
construction. The possible exception is Bill Hezeltine's fast design system
(not having seen the completed system I can't say for sure). The only other
problem I have is in possibly using weight in starship agility rules and the
agility rules themselves (weight tends to shift a lot on a starship, and the
agility rules had problems as many people will testify too. Also seeing STL
rules added and other such stuff would be okay too.
    It would also be nice to see Airlocks used with some consistency. (why are
they there if not to be used?)
    <Vehicle Combat> I'd like to see the same system for
air/ground/space/water (well, as similar as possible). Using something like
Roger Myhre's point based ship combat system would be a step in the right
direction.
    <Trade and Commerce rules> I like the MT version, it tended to resemble
the adventure plots more than the old. And as for it being slightly abstract
(Robert Dean mentioned he preferred '30 tons of silver' used in the old
system, he forgot the problems of '30 tons of computer parts' or '30 tons of
weapons'), so was the old system, in the later case I needed to try and create
subtables of what the possible items could be.
    Under the old rules I could get pretty wealthy with the right trade route
and a few hundred thousand in cash. Under the MT revision, the old adventure
set-ups made more sense. The starships constructed should keep in mind the
trade and commerce rules too (it's pretty stupid to design a merchant ship
that can't support itself on the average).

=============================

    Mike Mikesh idea of a dark Imperium and Light Behind the Claw setting is a
good one and I like it (it also matches most of the facts of what might
occur).
    As far as the Hard Times/Star Vikings setting is concerned, the problems I
see with this is that it should be short-lived (or trade was obviously more
important than heretofore given credit, or the damage much more severe than
credited to date). Also what are the other Empires doing, while the Imperial
interior is falling apart, sitting around playing tiddly winks? I could excuse
the Vargr, the Aslan to a minor extent, the Solomani are apparently having
internal problems(? most be major), the Zhodani have to contend with other
projects, and the Spinward Marches are still pretty intact and have new blood
and resources via the Aslan. That still leaves the Hivers and the K'Kree (time
to start a war between the two perhaps?), and how do you slow the Aslan down
(I'd vote for adding to the solomani problems and start a war on that front
too).
    If GDW is going to to a succesful job of having this dark future in the
Imperium, they are going to have to do a much better job of detailing the
background with specifics to give the GM ideas of how to deal with it. Just
saying the Imperium is having a Dark Night doesn't give me the feeling of it,
the Imperium is just too large to identify this with, I'd want to see some of
the feeling of Shadowrun, Cyberpunk, or even some of the descriptive effects
of DC, a novel wouldn't be bad, an example of major worlds and their
surrounding systems with a before and after effect might even be better.

    Well, I spent enough time on this today, gotta do my other stuff.
 ------------
 ************
Topic 3         Thu Jun 01, 1989
J.FUGATE                     at 18:48 MDT
Sub: MegaTraveller - General Discussions    

This topic is to be a catch-all topic for any discussion that doesn't fit in
any other topic.
 ************
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 3
Message 415       Tue Nov 19, 1991
DIGEST.GROUP [Staff]         at 19:15 EST
 
Rob,

In the Dark Conspiracy version of the system, characters end up wiht more
skills on the average than in straight T2k. Hopefully, this will be the same
for the new system. Hey, I should add that to my wish list!

- - Jay
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 3
Message 416       Tue Nov 19, 1991
GDW.SUPPORT [Loren W.]       at 20:44 EST
 
Just so you know, all of this is being recorded and distributed to Dave
Nilsen, Les Smith, and Frank Chadwick.
     Would someone be so kind as to forward all relevant discussion on the
Internet TML to GDW?
     More news on the RTC as it breaks...any suggestions as to the optimum
time?
      Loren
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 3
Message 417       Tue Nov 19, 1991
R.DEAN14 [Rob Dean]          at 20:53 EST
 
  Mike Metlay writes:

Greetings to all concerned. My name is Metlay, and I am the Historian for the
Internet Traveller Mailing List. I do not yet have access to GEnie (although
this may change in time for the RTC), and am posting here by the kind graces
of fellow Traveller-head and musician Rob Dean (well, he SAYS he's a musician,
but nothing HE plays can be plugged in. But I digress), to whom I offer
thanks. I have been playing Traveller since the original three books (I know,
I know, who hasn't in this bunch?), and have been  published twice in the JTAS
and once upcoming in MTJ3, or so Rob Caswell said.

Apology #1: I'm not going to pussyfoot around-- I am a Traveller-Classic
curmudgeon, and unashamed of the fact. Please take my comments accordingly.

Apology #2: I enjoy talking and writing for the sake of doing so. I save
brevity for my scientific output in the journals. If I get a bit wordy, please
forgive me.

News of the Traveller rules revision wasn't much of a surprise to me; I keep
close enough company with various folks to have an ear to the ground. What DID
knock me flat was the proposed future history of Star Viking. For the purposes
of clarity, I'm going to divide my comments into two parts: one on the concept
of revision to the rules themselves, and one on the Star Viking future
history.

On the rules revisions: frankly, I don't give a damn. I've been playing Trav
Classic for so many years that I don't even open the rule books any more; the
only part of the rules that I use consistently is character generation. With a
good party of players, I wing the rest. Once in a while, I add rules for
things that I find glaringly omitted; the current MT rules systems on
nonlethal weapons are based on one of my articles in JTAS, and the Type A2 Far
Trader came from a suggestion I made in 1978. But for the most part, I adapt
and let the rules take care of themselves. It's just not an issue to me-- game
mechanics that work are nice but not necessary.

On the other hand, as Historian of the TML, I have built up a huge database of
information on the Imperium, and have always admired the consistency and scope
of the future vision the Traveller rules have espoused. The Imperium and
surrounds, from the first hints in "The Kinunir" that there was a planet
called Regina to the huge map we have today, surpasses any other universe in
the gaming world. More information, more references, more detail. Not even
BattleTech, with its endless cascade of 30-dollar library books, or Shadowrun,
with module after module of jacked-in elf maidens with huge ta-tas, has
matched the fourteen years of output that have made the Imperium what it is.
The problem with such a well-developed system is that it becomes  monolithic
and immutable. Sudden changes to the worldline can be catastrophic. And a
decision to totally shift the game's focus can have a shattering effect far
worse than that of the three bullets for Stref, Mrs. Stref, and Baby Stref.

There were gaping and growing holes in the scientific and technical background
of Traveller since the beginning: in TClassic, computers had less processing
power than Hewlett-Packard calculators, and in MT, the basic assumptions about
maneuver drive were mangled in favor of a nonphysical, ridiculous and useless
idea of "thruster plates". (Sorry, but I'm a physicist. I can forgive antigrav
under the right circumstances, and even FTL for the sake of a good game, but
thrusters violate basic conservation laws and serve no purpose whatever in 
doing so). But these were fixable, ultimately: if a half dozen widely-used
sectors could be obliterated from the map with one wave (anyone wanna buy an
old Ley Sector map? Not the GDW one-- the JUDGES' GUILD!), problems with the
technology and consistency of the hardware were trivial to deal with.  Not a
problem....

There were gaping and growing holes in the sense of historical flow and 
precedent in the Traveller universe, but these were largely staged by Marc
Miller, whose guiding vision made a lot of worldshaking events seem not only
possible, but even halfway reasonable after some prodding. The Zhodani AREN'T
baby crushing scumbags, fine. The Droyne are the Ancients, fine. The Aslan
aren't a Major Race, fine. The Darrian Star Trigger doesn't work, fine. Not a
problem....

The point I'm making (forgive me, and pity the TML, who have to read through
this shovelling all the damn time) is that the Universe could take a little
poking and prodding to rearrange the bits that didn't quite jibe. 

But...STAR VIKING?!

Let me see if I have this straight. A horrible superduper computer virus  gets
released and causes every computer in the Universe to lock up.  Civilization
falls apart, and bands of freebooters with laser guns and swords battle for
control of what's left. 

Uh-huh. I tried this one out on my best friend's nephew, who's eight years
old, and HIS comment was, "Gimme a break." His older brother, a tender 
twelve, said, "What is it supposed to be-- bad H. Beam Piper or bad Frank
Herbert?"

Nobody's buying it, that I know of. And if people don't buy it, well, it 
won't sell. It is, simply put, a stupid concept. Like Being Hit On The Head
Lessons. There are other systems that could allow the usual inane munchkins
out there an afternoon's diversion with such ideas with a  minimum of fuss and
bother-- a GURPS Space variant, say. But why drag the Imperium-- THE IMPERIUM!-
- - into this morass of idiotic pseudoscifi?

Fourteen years of development and eleven thousand years of history deserve a
bit more than "Whoops, a computer virus wiped it all out. Game over."

The revision is a fine idea. It fixes problems with MT, allows GDW to continue
hiring people like Blair Reynolds, Larry Elmore and Dave Dietrick to make
their materials look like they give a damn who buys them, and (most
importantly for GDW) opens a new avenue for income. Traveller reborn into the
1990s!

A recurrent conversation with Loren Wiseman at the six GenCOns we saw each
other for, 1984 to 1989, was: 

"Gonna come watch Near Miss this year, Loren?" "Too tired, Metlay-- after you
do this for a living, GAMING loses its luster."

He was right. GDW is not in this entirely, or even mostly, out of love of
gaming any more. They're in this to make money. To survive in a market  where
it seems FASA can do no wrong (*ugh*). And an update of Traveller to meet the
challenge is sensible-- it combines the Traveller mystique  with a fresh new
look. I applaud their courage and advertising vision.

But they'd better have a future history on line that's a damn sight more
interesting than rehashed Battletech if they want to keep their old fans and
make any new ones.

metlay

PS. Would anyone be interested in a Traveller Classic novel based on the
characters in the aforementioned Near Miss Traveller Tournaments?

 ------------

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3127
Date:     Wed, 20 Nov 91 8:39:06 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Revision Comments from GEnie, Part 8

 ************
Topic 3         Thu Jun 01, 1989
J.FUGATE                     at 18:48 MDT
Sub: MegaTraveller - General Discussions    

This topic is to be a catch-all topic for any discussion that doesn't fit in
any other topic.
 ************
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 3
Message 419       Wed Nov 20, 1991
DIGEST.GROUP [Staff]         at 00:55 EST
 
Update to a previous message (I thnk it was here). Apparently Chuck Gannon
WON'T be doing a Traveller novel.

- - Jay
 ------------
 ************
Topic 29        Mon Nov 18, 1991
DIGEST.GROUP [Staff]         at 00:43 EST
Sub: The WISH List                          

You know that the new Traveller is coming soon to a game store near you - but
is you had your way, what would you want to see in it?
 ************
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 29
Message 10        Tue Nov 19, 1991
GDW.SUPPORT [Loren W.]       at 20:57 EST
 
Input to this point noted.
     Very little is cast in stone at this time. We will redesign the game. The
name will be some variation of Traveller, not MegaTraveller.  Star Viking will
NOT contain any of the new system rules...it will be a miniatures game
(possibly including miniatures in the box) that will focus on one aspect of an
advanced timeline.
     Dave Nilsen and the rest of us have discussed the possibility of several
things suggested here, and we will have more to say at the RTC in a couple of
weeks.
        Loren Wiseman
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 29
Message 11        Tue Nov 19, 1991
M.TURNAGE1                   at 21:02 EST
 
 
 Ok.  What I want to see (and a little of what I don't).

Well, to get the bad over with first, what I _dont_ want to see.

  The T2k/Dark Conspiracy system used.  I'm serious...the more I think about
it, the more I think it'd be a mistake.  I'm all for a revision, but changing
the system this much would be a mistake. I'll leave it at that for right now.

What I _DO_ want:

1)   A fully integrated and complete system.  ONE book, ONE volume. I like the
concepts expressed here and elsewhere about "layering." Let the game volume
have, at the least, the minimum rules needed for a particular area.  Later on
(better yet, at the same time) put out other volumes to expand on particular
areas.  If you want the extra detail, you can get it there.  If you don't you
can get by well enough by whats in the basic set.

2)   A task system.  In no uncertain words.  Regardless of what system is used
(in fact, a retrofitting of a task system into T2k/DC would be of benefit as
well).  This has the benefit of "genericizing" the skill system enough to
negate the need for detailed rules on many specialized subjects.

3)   An object-oriented approach, ala AI would be very nice. Wouldn't be very
hard, either IMHO.  THAT in itself would do a lot towards opening up the rules
system to beginners.

4)   An integrated vehicle design system...in fact, I'm quite happy with the
current version.  Perhaps streamlined and with more options (Wet Navy, the
Challenge rocket/interplanetary vehicle rules, ROBOTS!, etc...).  Integrating
on several scales might be better...there are disadvantages to having a design
system for charcter's ships that has to be used to build a dreadnought.  I'm
going to think some on this.

5)   Greatly, greatly expanded character generation.  I like what Jay was
saying about the rules giving a sense of "background history" to the
character.

6)   A much improved starship combat system...while we are getting STAR
VIKING, I really wished it wasn't miniatures based.  I want _this_ one
focusing more on playable scales...most characters won't (or shouldn't!) be
fighting DN's.  Two traders, or a small patrol vessel against some fighters,
OTOH....

More later,

Mark

 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 29
Message 12        Tue Nov 19, 1991
GDW.SUPPORT [Loren W.]       at 21:11 EST
 
Mark,
     Star Viking is to be a ground combat game...
          Loren
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 29
Message 13        Wed Nov 20, 1991
B.BORICH [LA TERRORIST]      at 00:10 EST
 
Loren,
    I can send you a copy of the TML archives if you want, contained therein
are a lot of the comments about their problems with MT and an attempt at some
fixes. The only problem is sifting through the material (about 10+ megabytes
worth).
    The other option is if there is someone on the TML willing to take the
time to seperate out the pertinent data (I don't have the time currently or I
would).
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 29
Message 14        Wed Nov 20, 1991
W.LIAW [Mac]                 at 00:35 EST
 
Star Viking is to be a ground combat game? Wait, I'm lost here. If the Star
Viking was to focus on advanced timeline, ground combat doesn't sound like a
logical choice. 
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 29
Message 15        Wed Nov 20, 1991
W.LIAW [Mac]                 at 00:43 EST
 
I too vote on character generation revision. That was one part of the game
that I wish it could be changed. Since the New rules will be based on TW2000,
this is probably a good thing. The players will have a bit more freedom on the
skills obtained.
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 29
Message 16        Wed Nov 20, 1991
D.CHEEVER                    at 01:21 EST
 
Having heard via the grapevine that a revision is in the works I had to come
on line long enough to put in my wishes. A truly 3-d combat system and a 3-d
universe. I doubt I'll get it, but it is ridiculous for a "hard" science space
game to be 2-d. Thanks.

The once and future Dave
 ------------


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3128
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 91 11:55:00 MET
From: sm@ncrsecp.copenhagen.ncr.dk

Confirm Delivery: Yes
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 91 11:55:07 MET
From: Sven.Munther@Copenhagen.NCR.DK (Sven Munther)
Subject: Whish list for Traveller 3


On GEnie Loren Wiseman writes :

>One of the things we want VERY much is customer input, which we are seeking
>through several sources...one of those sources is GEnie. If anyone has
>concerns about what we are doing, or suggestions, or questions, complaints,
>comments , suggestions, or whatever, we want to hear them.

I have three hopes for the new Traveller revision :

1)	Keep the Task System
2)		Keep the Task System
3)			Keep the Task System.

I do not have T:2000/2 but I do have DC and I have found the DC 'task'
system very primitive compared to MT/2300AD. So keep the task sytem -
at least for non-combat skill resolution.


- --------------------------------------------------------------------
      "                            Sven.Munther@Copenhagen.NCR.dk
Sven Munther                       Sven.Munther@Copenhagen.NCR.com
                                   ...!mcsun!dkuug!ncrsecp!sm


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3129
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 91 10:18:17 CST
From: bonnevil@stolaf.edu
Subject: Revision / Editing


Along the lines of the current revision discussion, confidence in GDW,
hopes for the future, and so forth....

No offense, but a friend of mine and I have been saying for years that
GDW should do something drastic about their proofing / editing department.
They've been having troubles since late Classic Traveller with basic
typographic problems -- missing tables, paragraphs, scrambled or obviously
missing words, etc.  For instance, the amusing bit in _Secret of the
Ancients_ where the last sentence in one of the paragraphs just breaks
off, or the famed "Dulinor was appointed in the year 0000" line in the
Rebellion Sourcebook, or any number of other memorable mistakes.  Even
my circa 1977 black books were better proofed than some of this new stuff.
It would improve confidence greatly if we didn't have to be continually
trying to get errata to the errata to fix this sort of thing!

Right now, and correct me if I'm mistaken, most players seem to play
Traveller because of the *SETTING* and not the rules.  I agree, I only
use the rules as a marginal guideline, but the rich and varied setting
has great potential as it stands.  I'm concerned about any massive
changes in the setting because it risks destroying the game.  Rules
changes, while of concern, are a bit more flexible for me.  

The idea of a "light behind the claw" and a Shattered Imperium of several
interstellar states of various sizes from tiny to huge might make a good
compromise.  Most of the "old-timers" are very familiar with the Marches,
making the area ideal for "Classic Traveller".  I'll still miss the old
empire though.  Before, the fringe areas were usually just fine for the
sort of thing "Star Viking" sounds like to me.  The clash of the
superpowers and the cosmopolitan scope of the empire were a lot of fun,
and have become so hard to arrange now....

- --Steve

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3130
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: New Traveller
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 91 18:16:54 MET

I assume that some kindly soul will forward this to GDW.

Mike Metlay expresses my feelings about New Traveller perfectly.
By all means fix the bits of MegaTraveller that needs fixing,
but leave the background alone. Throwing out 15 years of
acumulated background material is a really really bad idea.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3131
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 91 11:52:30 CST
From: surman@zulu.lgs.lsu.edu (Michael A. Surman)
Subject: Traveller Observations

Here's a suggestion/idea/opinion/observation on the continuing
debate about the upcoming Traveller revisions and rumors.

I'm going to state some self evident (at least to me) observations
inorder to establish a base from which to discuss an idea.

Obviously, everyone is very fond of the game and have put considerable
time and effort into their own campaigns.

It appears most are professionals or about to be professionals and
therefore are knowledgeable in a variety of fields (eventhough 
computers and physics seem to dominate ;-)).

Some are even actively involved in game production ( scenario and
equipment design, stories, etc.). 

Everyone has modified their games to incorporate individual, official,
semi-official corrections and ideas. Some of these ideas have been
posted and there are probably more that haven't but are equally as 
detailed and interesting.

>From all of this it would seem that at least a few of you would
have gotten together by now and compiled a set of "house" rules.
Then again maybe you have and I don't know about it! (hint, hint :-))

Essentially, what I'm trying to write is: has anyone suggested to
the companies involved (i.e. DGW) that with all of this "expertise"
available that it could be used as a profitable source of ideas. I 
know the first thing a company looks at is "How much is it going to
cost." but with the avid group of players here I would think that 
acknowledged credit would be enough for most (I think most
submissions to the periodicals are not compensatable anyway).

It seems to me that the basic core rules have generated the most
problems. So, what I see would be a revised set of rules, like the
"house" rules mentioned above, submitted by the authors, that would
cover the basics ( character generation, starship design, equipment
design, skills, world generation, etc.). Everyone has suggestions
and most seem to be similar to each other. A good editor could put
these together into a coherent and acceptable package.
(The conference occuring on Genie about "What would you like to see
in future releases/revisions." seems to be headed in this direction.
If any of the input is really used!)

The historical background, future background and scenario construction
should come from GDW or other appropriate sources. This is the 
information that makes the game. Fifteen years of Traveller has 
generated a considerable amount of information. This shouldn't be 
wasted but expanded upon. To me any rules system could be used but 
it's the background that adds the spice.

I know most companies are not receptive to outside help (otherwise
how would they justify the existence of their employees) but with 
some already on the payroll, so to speak, it would seem easier to
get these ideas introduced. Besides, the employees could be used to
generate the ideas for the background information. Once the rules
are produced, modules keep the system going (if you need an example
look at TSR and the D&D, AD&D systems!).

Probably the one thing that prevents this is time! I know I don't
have a lot of it to devote to my hobbies and such and most of you
are likely in a similar situation but even so it would seem with you
"hard core" types that something would have been accomplished by now.

Mike Surman
surman@zulu.lgs.lsu.edu

p.s.
Or failing the above has anyone looked into buying the copyright to
Traveller and having a go at it? :-)



------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3132
Date:  Wed, 20 Nov 91 17:05:21 +0000 
From: Andy Hewson <ah@oats12.london.ncr.uk>
Subject:  Hot Fusion & Gyro-stabilisation 


OA
Hi TML world wide, 
 
after reading things for a few months I thought it's about time
I typed something ... so ..... 
 
In 3113 Paul Dale writes : 
 
>According to our locl newspaper, somebody in Europe managed to
>maintain a (hot) fusion reaction for a couple of seconds (? not
>exactly sure how long it really was).  If we get fusion we would
>also get to TL9. 
> 
>Pauli 
 
The Joint European Tourus (JET) Labs nr Didcot, England, did
achieve fusion for about 2 seconds generating about 2.5 MWatts,
from an input energy of about 10 times that !
This may not sound like much - but it is an improvement on past efforts.

However, before you all start leaping up and down with glee expecting
fusion generators to be just around the corner, you should know that
the next phase in the testing is the best part of *TWO YEARS* away
when about twice as much tritium (3g) will be used to trigger the reaction,
and that it's estimated that a sustained reaction of at least 30 minutes
will be required to make fusion practical :-(

.... oh well, one day ... :-)

Secondly re. all this talk of Gyro-stabilisation of weapons (3089 etc..),
Canon (the camera people) have been developing a 300mm  f2.8 lens that
features an anti-camera shake feature controled by ultra-sonic motors (USM)
that detects movement of the lens when in use and moves the lens elements
to compensate.

So what has this to do with guns ?

Extrapolate from the small beginings Canon are making to more powerful
TL10+ USMs. Slap those on a gun (even a laser) along with a controlling
computer and while they don't do anything for recoil they could be
*very* good at damping unwanted weapon movement.

And while on the subject of weapons - will caseless ammo' help cut down
the need for gyro-stablisers ?


CU on the net
- -- 

Andy

===================================******=====================================
 "We don't know how to either. But we've not known how to for a lot longer
  than you, and that's what counts !" - Granny Weatherwax & Nanny Ogg.
===================================******=====================================
Andrew Hewson,                             Andy.Hewson@London.NCR.UK
Senior Analyst/Programmer                  Tel : (081) 446-8585 x5032
ISS, Finchley, NCR UK                      Fax : (081) 446-7740
===================================******=====================================

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3133
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Ancient Weapons and Hokey Religions
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 91 10:38:32 GMT

Richard Johnson <richard@agora.rain.COM> writes:
> 
> ... are no match for a blaster at your side.  :=)

Like I said, what TL is a light-sabre?  Wait till you try to shoot someone
and he parries your shot, then repeat that.  :-)

> I've never seen a good correlation for the rifle-carbine-pistol development
> and TL, but then there wouldn't necessarily be one.  Handguns and rifles
> have historically (on Terra) evolved separately.

Well, minor details such as how to get multiple shots may have evolved
separately, but the important advances, i.e. how to get any shots, evolved
pretty much in parallel.  Matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, cartridge;
all these appeared in longarms and pistols at around the same time, and
certainly in the same sequence.  (There were also wheellock pistols; I don't
know if there were wheellock muskets, but the wheellock was an expensive and
unreliable mechanism anyway, and was shortly replaced by the flintlock.)

> So, is your blaster a revolver or a semi-auto?  (full auto PGMP? WOW!)

"I know what you're thinking.  'Did he fire 1000 shots, or only 999?'  Well,
to tell you the truth, in the excitement I kind of lost count myself.  But
bearing in mind that this is the Heckler-Colt, the most powerful PGMP in the
galaxy, and is capable of blowing your office clean off the map, what you've
got to ask yourself is 'Do I feel lucky?'.  Well, do you?"  :->

- -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3134
Subject: GEnie <-> TML Traffic
From: TML Administrator <traveller-request@metolius.WR.TEK.COM>
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 91 08:20:27 PST


Rob Dean and Carl Fago have graciously offered, for an unspecified
limited time, to exchange comments regarding the Traveller Revision with
the discussion thread on GEnie.

Please post all traffic you wish GEnie to see, to the TML.  Carl will
scan through the digests and periodically, manually forward the comments
to GEnie.

On the other end, as new GEnie articles appear there, Rob Dean will sift
through them, remove articles already seen on the TML, and upload the
new articles to appear here in the TML.

Many thanks to Rob and Carl for their efforts! I hope they find it easy
to do and can keep it up for a few weeks.  In order to keep from
overworking these fellows, I'd like to ask the rest of us to be careful
and compose the clearest, most cogent material possible so that GEnie is
impressed with the TML traffic.  :-)

Little do they know, but we more disorganized a group of Traveller fans
than those on GEnie.  :-)

Administrivia note: the TML is almost ready to blast through the 300
member barrier.

James
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Traveller Mailing List Administrator	     James T Perkins @ Tektronix, Inc
traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com	     Beaverton, Oregon, USA
    "How many ancients can dance on the head of a pin?" - Scott Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3135
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1991 12:53 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Scott's Traveller Wish List

Dear Santa,

I've been a good boy this year and have a few requests that I don't think
are too outrageous...

"Volume 1:  Atom bomb through Grenade Launcher"  -- Calvin

What I want in a new traveller rule set.

Adventures
- ---------
MegaTrav suffers from a lack of them.  How many are there?  Flaming Eye,
Knightfall.  That's it!  There are some other things out there that are
in the corners of Challenge, Trav Digest and The Rebellion Sourcebook,
but THAT'S IT!  Zilch!  Nothing!  Zero!

The two adventures above... Well, I won't run Knightfall, and there's
little in there that is useful for inspirations for other adventures.
Flaming Eye?  Well, I liked it better.  There is more that is useful
for inspiration, but again, I doubt I'd use the adventure as published.

The best adventure put out so far in MegaTrav is Nail Mission at the end
of Rebellion Sourcebook.  It has the most potential, the neatest premise
for a mission.  Go out through hostile territory, under cover and get
the missing piece of a disintigrator that will help save the Domain.
The other adventures put out so far are pretty much run from the fleets
and TRY to stay alive.
Unfortunately, it is not given more than a few pages, and you need the
star maps of the Domain, which I don't have.  So I doubt I'd run it as
set.  I might use the idea, but not as set.

Rules
- -----
There are too many F**KING RULE BOOKS!  You have a million different
sections scattered in half a million different places and NO thought
given to organization.

When running a game, I don't have time to root through a million different
books to find the 'Correct' rule.  Hmmm was that section on zero gravity
environments in the Ref's guide, the Players handbook, the starship
operator's manual, the encyclopedia or the rebellion sourcebook?...
Generally, I wing it, as all refs probably should, but imagine for a moment
that I haven't been playing trav for years?  Ok, I'm a new gamer, never
seen this Traveller before.  I've got a million different rules... I have
to remember them... Right?

Lets see, weapon performance is in the player's hand book, but their cost and
weight is in the encyclopedia??

They need organization.

How about one book devoted to character development, one book for design and
performance rules, one book for combat, one book for trade and commerce...
Later, when new ideas get incorporated, you could put out a suppliment for
that book. (Classic trav fans:  Sound familiar?)
That way at least when you have a question you need to look up, you can
narrow down the books you need by their subject.  If a book comes out on a
topic you never use, Don't buy it!

I agree there should be a basic set.  But don't come out with stuff on a
million different subjects and pack them in a book called 'miscellaneous'!
Miscellaneous junk always gets LOST!

As it is now, the MegaTrav rules should be listed as Miscellaneous Player
junk, Miscellaneous Ref Junk, and Miscellaneous Encyclopedia Junk! After
that came Miscellaneous volume 1, and 2.  The only organized book to come
out was COACC.  It took on one subject and stuck to it!

I know, some of you might be saying, well, if the player doesn't want to
use a book, then they won't buy it and GDW/GDP are after all out to make
Money!  You can't make much money selling things that fewer people will buy!
Well, my argument to this is that you won't make ANY money trying to sell an
unplayable game!

Vehicle Design
- -------------
I LIKE being able to design my own stuff.

I agree with whoever said it first.  We don't need a single system for
construction, we need a Consistant system for construction.  You can't
design a car and a plane to use the same engine.  If you do, you will
either overheat at the side of the road, or crash from an overweight
engine.  That's why we don't have flying cars today.

There are similar problems involved in trying to make a system that is
used to design a car and a boat.  Or a car and a spacecraft.  etc.

Robots:  The old book 8 is inaedequate.  It needs updating.  Robots are
popular in Science Fiction and trav doesn't have a decent system to use
them.  I would also suggest it be a system by which LARGE robots may be
built.  Sure!  Capture some of the BattleTech crowd!  Sell the stuff!
Keep the company in business!

Spacecraft:  I don't like reactionless drives.  Anti-Grav and Jump drives
are ok, We need Faster than light stuff to keep the Imperium intact.
Anti-Grav?  Well, It's one of the meats of science fiction.  It's too fun
to leave it out.

What I'd like to do with Trav drives?  Scrap the Thrusters.  Put in Fusion
rockets as drive sysems.  Ok, that makes take off and landings tough.
The ships would burn through the tarmac with their jets.  Ok, so how 'bout
this:  Close to the ground, a ships internal gravitation field can provide
a small amount of thrust.  Enough to lighten ship so that it can take off
at powers that don't burn through concrete.

What's with the 6-G limit?  Why is it there?  It serves no purpose.
Fusion rockets can put out as much thrust as you can pack into the ship.

Come out with one book.
Chapter 1:  Space and Star Ships
Chapter 2:  Grav Vehicles
Chapter 3:  Robots
Chapter 4:  Aircraft/Helicopters/Airships
Chapter 5:  Ground Vehicles
Chapter 6:  Water Vehicles	etc. etc.

Provide Clear Examples!

Sure some of it might be redundant!  Who cares!  If each section is clearly
explained, it won't matter!  If it can be used easily then people will buy
it!

Computers
- ---------
Trav computers need updating.  The basic ideas haven't changed since they
were introduced 15 years ago in book 2.  A lot has been done in the past
15 years with computers.  New ideas thought of, new capablities imagined.
Trav computers are too vague to deal with it.  We need something that will
allow the incorporation of Cyber Punk type stuff.  This will make traveller
appeal to a broader base.  Sell more games!  The more games they sell, then
maybe they can get around to putting out some GOOD stuff again!

There is no explanation of what a 'Model 1' is.  I remember there was an
article a long time ago, which called the Apple II the equivalent of a
model 2.  Well, I rather doubt that.  I don't think an Apple II has the
power to control a two parsec jump!

So is it a Cray or what?

As to the power shown by them, a model 1 can provide a +1 for hitting
targets at space craft type ranges, but only provides a +1 to hit targets
at tank to tank ranges.  The thing can carry a starship across a parsec,
but hardly provides any extra targeting power for a tank a hundred meters
away!  Something is very wrong here!

Another problem is that they come 'off the shelf' no modifications really
possible, no explanations, and no tech level effects past TL 8.  Come on!
A TL 11 hand computer is supposed to have the same power as a model 1!
But even a TL 15 model 1 weighs/costs the same as the TL 8!

Possible solution:  (Hold on to your hats!)  How about a computer design
system?  Take the Book 8 robot brain system, it is inaedequate, but it's a
start.  You could build a computer from the ground up.  Install CPU units,
programming, memory as desired.  (A grav tank hardly needs programs for a
jump drive!) Computer power could be devided up for different tasks.  What
is needed is someone to decide, Ok, a 'model 1' computer has such and such
a capability.  To build a computer to provide a +1 die modifier for
performing task Y, you need X amount of CPU, storage, etc.

Also incorporable would be tech level effects.  At TL 9 Silicon Carbide
will step in making computers more radiation hard.  At TL 10 Diamond
semiconductors will take over making them MUCH more so.  You could add
electronic circuit protection to make them more so, and at high TL, these
will be competative with the fiber optic models in terms of radiation
hardness.

Now you can still have 'off the shelf' models for lazy designers who don't
wanna worry about it, you could even optimize such systems by making them
cost a little less or weigh a little less.
(was anything like this discussed in TDR?)

Star Viking
- -----------
Now it's ground combat?  Is there still an imperium eating virus out there?

I think folks are forgetting a few things.  If these Star Vikings are to
be travelling around somehow, they're gonna need a computer to travel from
star system to star system, and even from planet to planet.  Jump drives
won't work without a computer!  Hell, fusion power plants won't work without
one either!  (not to mention fusion/plasma guns... particle/meson accelerators)

I don't think you can come up with a believable explanation that all the big
computers failed leaving us with the big computers that are necessary for the
story!  (sounds like a very selective virus to me)  How is Anything high
tech gonna work without computers?

If you ask me, I think trav needs MORE emphisis on computers.  There are a lot
of young gamers out there who are into computers.  If you wan't them to put
their money down you can't eliminate the computers!

Twilight 2000
- -------------
Never played it.  Have heard there are problems.

Converting over to the system?  Well, I said before I LIKE designing my own
vehicles!  Perhaps if they want they should convert the T2K vehicle system
to the Traveller system.  I turned out traveller versions of the Abrams,
M-60, T-72, T-80 and others.  Admittedly the versions I came up with weren't
perfect, but that is due to problems with the design system as it is now.
That could be corrected in a future re-write.  Especially with a computer
design system.

Ok, that's enough rambling and moaning out of me.
Thanks,

Scott S. Kellogg

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

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To: dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin), bfwong@ocf.berkeley.edu (Raven Blackburn),
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TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun Nov 24 21:00:21 PST 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #259: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
3136  21-Nov-91 Robert S. Dean    Revision Discussions, part 9 << ************ 
3137  21-Nov-91 Robert S. Dean    Revision Discussion, Part 10 << ************ 
3138  21-Nov-91 Mike.Metlay@ORGAN Please forward this to the GEnie "general Tra
3139  22-Nov-91 Richard Johnson   Interstellar Witness Program << Mike and Lee:
3140  22-Nov-91 jpb@umbio.med.mia A variety of thoughts about Neo-Traveller << 
3141  22-Nov-91 Richard Johnson   More stuff for the Wish List << I've been ski
3142  23-Nov-91 Robert S. Dean    Revision Discussion from GEnie, Part 11 << Th
3143  23-Nov-91 "J.A.F.O."        A newcomers initial mewlings (general) << I h
3144  24-Nov-91 "J.A.F.O."        The wish list << What would I like to see in 

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3136
Date:     Thu, 21 Nov 91 19:06:14 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Revision Discussions, part 9

 ************
Topic 29        Mon Nov 18, 1991
DIGEST.GROUP [Staff]         at 00:43 EST
Sub: The WISH List                          

You know that the new Traveller is coming soon to a game store near you - but
is you had your way, what would you want to see in it?
 ************
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 29
Message 17        Wed Nov 20, 1991
K.BRENNAN2 [Kevin]           at 19:45 EST
 
   My thoughts on Neo-Traveller:

   Quite honestly, many of the changes (and certainly many of the rumors)
don't thrill me. I've been playing Traveller since 1982 and there's a lot of
things I'd like to preserve.

  -Things I want kept:
   The task system. In my opinion, it's much better than  Twilight's skill
resolution. Twilight characters seem incompetent  except at the high skill
levels. The MT task system is easy to  use, flexible, and versatile. It's
probably the best thing MegaT changed.

   Characters. I don't care if the generation rules change. In fact, they
probably should be changed to give players more  control. However, I would
like characters created under the MT rules to be usable in Neo-Trav, without
having to be converted. I have a feeling that these two points are things that
I won't get, but I feel that I should try.

   Worlds. Again, some of the mechanics could be changed, but the  end result
should be the same. Yes, those results are often not very logical, but I don't
want to throw out all those sector listings.

   Basically, I'm not in favour of converting Traveller to the  Twilight
system. Yes, the rules need to be cleaned up and they need to be more
accessible to new gamers, but this seems like an unnecessary change, and one
that will irritate a great majority of current players. (Here on GEnie and in
several conversations,  I've only come across one response that was more
positive than "I can live with it if I have to", and most were firmly
opposed.)

   There are some good points about a revision, I admit. The MT rules can be a
bit impenetrable. A revised rule set could help attract new gamers to the
universe. Things that I would approve of changes to include:

   Combat. The current rules are pretty abstract, and, while I don't mind
them, a bit more detail and colour would be nice. I'm not terribly attached to
the current rules, and if a less  abstract system helps attract gamers, then
by all means change  it.

   Craft Design. Quite frankly, the current rules are just too  hard to work
with. Any design system that requires a spreadsheet is too complex. Please
replace them, though they might be better placed in their own supplement.

   Accessibility. MT is just too hard for new gamers to pick up. Neo-Trav has
to be easier to learn.

   As for the setting: 
   I'm very worried that Neo-Trav is beginning to sound like  Twilight: 5700.
While it's clear that it will have a darker tone than Classic Traveller, I
don't think that the collapse of inter- stellar civilization (if that is
indeed GDW's plan) is a good  idea. In fact, that's a lot of an
understatement. It's the only thing I can think of that could make me decide
not to buy the  game. 

    The Traveller universe has always been a very diverse place, and I think
that Neo-Traveller should emphasize that. If Star Viking requires anarchy,
leave Diaspora in chaos. Further  coreward, most of the factions should be
functioning fairly well as interstellar governments, though the aftereffects
of the  Rebellion (probably including a rather massive depression) and a cold
war among the factions would give this area a darker feel. Finally, the Domain
of Deneb could remain stable, peaceful, and  generally happy, as others have
suggested. Set things up so that  the tone of the universe varies. Then the
referee can select an area that will match that tone.

   Oh yes: I echo Farstar's sentiments. Do it ONCE, and do it RIGHT. No
eighteen pages of errata this time, please.

And hey: be careful out there.
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 29
Message 18        Wed Nov 20, 1991
GDW.SUPPORT [Loren W.]       at 20:12 EST
 
I personally guarantee that the revision will not require an 18-page errata
sheet. I can also guarantee that it WILL require some sort of  errata
(nobody's perfect). 
     Brian and TML: I would appreciate it if somebody could arrange for GDW to
receive all rules-relevant discussions from Internet TML and anywhere else you
can think of. The more customer input we have, the closer we can come to
making a game acceptable to most (we are under no illusions that everyone will
love the revision, but we do want the largest number possible to be pleased
with it.
     Believe it or not, our discussions at GDW and the suggestions here  are
not that far apart...
     Mike Metlay (Via Bob): When did I ever call you by your last name?  We
were (and are, I hope) on a first name basis. Sorry I could never free up the
time to sit in on one of your Near Miss sessions  (its obvious that you are
more disturbed about it than you showed at the time). Seriously, at
conventions I am barely able to function, since I'm usually working on a junk
food overload and about 12 hours overdrawn at the sleep bank. As you say
though, we have to give our first priority to earning a living. Sorry you
object to the Star Viking background, or what you've heard of it so far. I'd
appreciate it if you waited until you heard the whole proposal before making a
final judgement.
         Loren Wiseman
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 29
Message 19        Wed Nov 20, 1991
ED.EDWARDS                   at 21:32 EST
 
 If other RPG players are like me:

 (group 1) 40% buy the rules and never read them
 (group 2) 30% buy the rules, read them once, and put them aside
 (group 3) 20% buy the rules and find them interesting enough to buy
               a few adventure/supplements
 (group 4) 10% buy any set of rules (both revised and reformated),
               buy virtualy every professional adventure/supplement,
               or fanish article concerning the game

 Game producers have to sell the game to groups 2,3, and 4 to break even --
 they make a profit off of group 1.  I presume the profit largely goes toward
 the game system for support items, fanzines, etc.

 We are most fortunate in TRAVELLER
 us group 4 folks have not been
 forgotten -- please note the companies could make a profit just catering
 to groups 1, 2, and 3.
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 29
Message 20        Wed Nov 20, 1991
P.BERGHOLD [pete]            at 21:37 EST
 
If I had my way I'd like to see the ORIGINAL Traveller rules get re-
instated... But I know that won't happen so what I'd *really* like to see is
the ship/vehicle building rules get fixed!   I *STILL* can't successfully
design a ship by the MegaTraveller rules!  I MISS HIGH GUARD!!!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 Peter L. Berghold   Traveller Fossil at Large
 INTERNET: plb@violin.att.com

 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 29
Message 21        Wed Nov 20, 1991
C.FAGO1 [Carl Fago]          at 21:47 EST
 
One thing that strikes me in the conversations about a Traveller revision...

It seems that most people don't want a "new" Traveller, they want the old one
fixed correctly.

Why not a second edition MegaTraveller or a "third" edition Traveller??

I always thought the "Mega" part was a bit silly.  Why not take the course to
revise (i.e. correct) the systems that have shown excessive weakness and
improve the ones that don't have major flaws?

Then the whole thing could be bundled as Traveller, Third Edition and enter a
major advertising blitz/campaign.

TSR seemed to do this with AD&D and it seems to have worked (from what I see
on the shelves in the stores.)  By renaming to Star Viking and casting out the
Imperium or what has been done before, a major segment of the Traveller gaming
population is alienated.  By improving on what is already in place, this
segment is kept in tact and with the advertising blitz, the new customers can
be picked up.

Also, if it is a certain segment of the younger crowd that is being targeted,
why not a new module with this in mind?  Keep the cost on par with TSR
adventure modules and use this as the targeting media. Use it in the
advertising campaign.

Of course, I am an engineer and not a businessman, but these things make sense
to me.  A wholesale revision and renaming does not.

I would be _very_ interested in hearing if these are good ideas and if they
are not, why not.

Thanks for listening.

                                     *-=Carl=-*

And, Loren, with regard to Metlay's bitching about the proposal, or what he
has heard of it, why not upload an abstract so none of us are dealing from the
dark?  I appreciate knowing any of what I can so that I can talk from a
position of knowledge rather than a position of conjecture (which I probably
do most of the time.)
 ------------

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3137
Date:     Thu, 21 Nov 91 19:52:15 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Revision Discussion, Part 10

 ************
Topic 29        Mon Nov 18, 1991
DIGEST.GROUP [Staff]         at 00:43 EST
Sub: The WISH List                          

You know that the new Traveller is coming soon to a game store near you - but
is you had your way, what would you want to see in it?
 ************
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 29
Message 22        Wed Nov 20, 1991
S.OLSON4                     at 23:06 EST
 
    OK, OK, I'm back after prolonged silence do to computer system troubles
(my hard drive went out on me).  Sheesh, I vanish, and they started trying to
change the Universe on me.

    Wish List:

1:  Either keep the stats/skills the same, or provide conversions so
players/refs can convert old and favoured characters to the new system.
Personnally, I don't see any particular need to change the stats and skills
(except adding more of the latter, maybe).

2:  The cries for increasing character generation flexibility have some merit,
although once you're into a career there are often limitations on what things
you will have a chance to learn.  The way you could choose which table you
rolled on, but not the exact skill, simulated this rather well, I feel.
However, perhaps 1 skill per term could be chosen by the player directly.

3:  Convert the current MT personal combat system to Striker, but with the
damage and damage system as they are (perhaps modified a little to conform to
T2K, but not too much.  Ranges in T2K v1 were WAY too low for most weapons).
The range bands have GOT to go!!!  (They result in the vast disparity between
the ACR, with a range of 500m, and the gauss rifle, with a range of 5km).

4:  Throw out the artificial-seeming restrictions like the 6G limit for
spacecraft, the Agility-6 limitation, no thrusters on craft smaller than 20
tons (although you can use them on vacc suits....), etc.  The power
requirements will keep the agility and manuever in line, anyway.

5:  Make Agility related to manuever again.  This separation makes no sense
(as I explained to Joe at length a few years ago).

6:  I'd like to see (or maybe write, if necessary) a set of design rules like
Striker, that would allow the production of everything from bicycles to tanks
to starfreighters to dreadnoughts.  Weapons design (missiles, lasers, PAWs,
meson guns, mass drivers, cannon, rockets, etc) should also be included, up to
and including weapons for starships.  Example, if I want to mount 1500 Mw
lasers on my destroyer, I should be able to, and the system should handle it.
Small arms would be nice, but not really needed as long as enough types are
included, and possible variants noted (example, 6.75mm ACR's, instead of the
standard 7mm).
    These rules can wait a little while, but any items included in the initial
book MUST be compatible with them, and they must also be reasonable designs. A
problem with the designs in MT has always been that they were conversions
(except the Gazelles) from Book-2 designs and they did not convert well.
    These would probably be closely based on the current MT system, which is
actually very good, but it needs some additions (like armor facings), and some
corrections.

7:  The task system should be retained, in some form, anyway.  Another system
to look at for a well-done task system is Albedo.  That has a sliding
difficulty scale, with simple tasks at 5 and nearly impossible ones at 25, and
several standard levels in between (refs can also make up their own, as
required).  You add your roll of 2d6 to any applicable skill or stat, and if
you beat the number needed, you made it.
    2D6 is preferable in many ways to a 1D10 roll, but mostly because it
generates a bell-curve, rather than straight-line probabilities. On a 1D10, a
1 is just as likely as a 10, but on a 2D6 roll, a 5 is much more likely than a
12.

8:  I'll disagree (what's new here, right Dave?) with Dave Cheever on his
request for a 3-D combat system.  As long as we're not dealing with fleets, 2D
works just fine as the ships involved define the plane and you fight on it. If
a supplement comes out governing fleet ops, then 3D operation may become
important and can be inserted there, but we don't need it in the initial
release.

9:  Combat interfaces between personal/ground combat and starship combat.  If
I want to shoot at a starship with my grav tank, what happens?  This isn't
covered in MT, or in Traveller, and isn't well covered even in Striker.  The
capability to handle it _is_ in MT, though, with all those damage points that
we calculate and never use....
    I had hoped Star Viking would give us this, but maybe not.

    Yeah, I know, my designer/wargamer habits are showing again, but this is a
wish list, right?

              Scott
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 29
Message 23        Thu Nov 21, 1991
GDW.SUPPORT [Loren W.]       at 00:02 EST
 
Carl: I'll try for an abstract of our plans this weekend or early next week.
   We are not renaming Traveller Star Viking. Star Viking will be a separate
game, using miniatures as playing pieces, set in the post-rebellion world
(about 80 years +). The new Traveller will be called Traveller (or some
variant thereof. We are considering several physical formats, etc.
     As for the RTC where we explain all this, evenings are best for us too. 
Weeknights? Weekend? ANy particular time best? 
         Loren Wiseman
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 29
Message 24        Thu Nov 21, 1991
DIGEST.GROUP [Staff]         at 02:02 EST
 
 Loren,







 ~~~If you schedule it, they will come~~~
    ----------------------------------

 - Jay
 ------------




------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3138
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 91 09:21:15 EST
From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: Please forward this to the GEnie "general Trav" board

A couple of points:

First, as I wrote in my last message, the TDR project mentioned by myself
and hinted at by Mr. Borich was and is a slow-moving process; there exist
a couple of worthwhile modules, but hardly the basis for a new game. What
fellow TMLer Mike Surman has suggested, however, is that GDW avail itself
of the many experts in physics, military science, economics, etc., to 
check on and remove the most glaring errors in concept. I'm not suggesting
that they cave in to niggling little details, or the revision will never
be published. But I don't think that violation of the Law of Conservation
of Energy by thruster plates is a niggling little detail-- anyone want 
plans for a real live Perpetual Motion Machine, perfectly usable in the
current rules? The Trade and Commerce system could also use such real-world
checks-- the tiny paragraph in Knightfall about materials availability was
the first note of common sense raised so far. I don't care much for using
rules systems myself, as I said before, but the fact that the exact nature
of the stuff you're carrying has NO effect on the rules is a bit odd.

Second, a question on Trav Classic: would someone at GDW please confirm or
deny the existence of the last page of the History section of Alien Module
8, DARRIANS? It really reads like it was cut off abruptly, and it stops
centuries short of the current timeline....

metlay

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3139
Subject: Interstellar Witness Program
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 91 11:03:41 PST
From: Richard Johnson <richard@agora.rain.COM>

Mike and Lee:  I've taken the liberty of forwarding this to the
general TML and to Nick (who knows more about law already than most
of us will ever want to).  I like it; it reminds me of Heinlein's
True witnesses, with some MT flavor.   

Forwarded message:
:Date: Fri, 22 Nov 91 09:40:03 CST
:From: surman@zulu.lgs.lsu.edu (Michael A. Surman)
:
:Hi Richard,
:	Lee and I were bouncing around another idea (what's new, right! :-) )!
:It has to do with our character backgound but adds another dimension to the
:game background also. Here's the idea. I've edited only a small fraction of
:what we were discussing. 
:			-------------------
:Mike, here are my ideas about the Interstellar Professional Witness Society.
:
:The organiztion has its' roots in the distant past.  It started during the Long
:Night, among the few interstellar traders still operating.  Because many of
:these groups spent most, if not all, their lives in space, they became 
:acccepted as neutral third parties on many worlds.  It would be bad for 
:business if these mediators were dishonest, so they developed a code amongst
:themselves governing their actions in such matters.  Over the years they
:developed a reputation for honesty and impartiality on many worlds.  One
:particular group of merchants adopted this practice of mediating disputes as
:its prime source of income.  This is the group that eventually became the IPWS.
:
:Humanity expanded through space, and the IPWS expanded with it.  There has
:never been any shortage of disputes and expansion only magnified this.  It is
:during this time that the society developed training and conditioning programs
:which insured its' members honesty and integrity.  By the time the Third
:Imperium was established the society had increased its' reputation to the
:point where they were officially recognized by all major governments. Even
:the Imperium put its' stamp of approval on the IPWS.  
:
:After the Frontier Wars with the Zhodani, the IPWS was the mediator of choice
:in all negotiations.  Zhodani society has a very high degree of honesty due to
:the widespread use of psionics in it.  Even the Zhodani recognized the IPWS in
:an official sense.  Also during this time, psionic training programs were
:developed and instituted in the society.  This last fact is not for public
:consumption within the Imperium, although the Imperium itself knows about it,
:and still supports the IPWS.
:
:Throughout the Imperium, the Zhodani Consulate, and the Solomani Sphere, the
:gray robes of the IPWS are known and respected.  Members of the IPWS go through
:the most rigorous of mental and moral training known to humankind.  Their
:honesty and integrity makes even their unsupported word truth.  It is 
:accepted in courts of law without question.  If an IPWS member says he saw it,
:it's as good as if the event was videotaped.
:
:Note that the name is Interstellar, NOT Imperial.  When a witness puts on his
:robe, he has no loyalty to any government or other organization.  He has no
:axe to grind for anyone.  He will report only the truth of what he sees or
:hears.  No opinions are given.  If he sees an object from one side and it is
:red, he will report the object is red *on this side*.  He has not seen the
:other side and will not comment on it.
:
:Well Mike, that is a short explanation of the IPWS and its origins.  I added
:the last paragraph to illustrate how I imagine a society member is expected
:to act while "under the robe".  I hope it helps.
:						Lee	
:
:**
:The message I sent you (witness.txt), is only a history of the society.  I'm
:not quite sure how it operates after the rebellion.  But seeing as it has its
:roots in the Long Night, I'm pretty sure that with all these years of good
:reputation, the society should continue to flourish.  As to our position
:in the society, I feel that the society dosen't have ranks. It has members.
:Certainly, there is a support structure for training and for interacting with
:outside parties, but nobody really orders anybody around.  I would imagine
:that a society member would be a useful addition to any organization such as
:the SDS; as long as they remember that with the robes on we are not loyal to
:any particular thing except our own integrity.  
:
:**
:
:Nope, nothing to add.  I imagined the psionic training to be in the realm of
:improving memory, reinforcing of the other training to the point where it
:really is ingrained.  I hadn't thought of actual skills being taught
:'(Telepathy: Shield & Lie Detection)'.  But it makes sense; maybe the psionic
:training we recieved '(other than what we were born with)'  was through the 
:IPWS. I think that will fit in real well.
:                                Lee
:			-------------------
:
:Well? What do you think?
:
:Mike


I like it.  It seems to kind of flow with another idea I once started
building, the Interstellar Rescue Service, whic sort of fell apart, 
because of the breakup.
- -- 
Richard Johnson     richard@agora.rain.com
Sue Congress!

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3140
From: jpb@umbio.med.miami.edu (Joe Block)
Subject: A variety of thoughts about Neo-Traveller
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 91 14:19:08 EST


I like the idea of having the different sections of the old Empire have 
different feels to them; Deneb relatively stable under Emperor Norris
(Excuse me, Archduke Norris), the core sectors relatively chaotic due to 
looting expeditions from the various Star Viking bases, and the various 
faction controlled areas in a state of hot and cold running wars.

As far as rules changes go, please keep the task system.  From what I've heard
from people who play DC and T2K, MT's task system is superior.  I also like
the idea of having one basic book with additional volumes for ship
construction, robot construction, world building, etc.  However, if they are
going to come out in separate books, ALL OF THEM HAVE TO COME OUT AT ONCE!
I don't want to have to wait 6 months before I'm able to run a campaign.

Having a computer virus that effects all the big computers is silly.  How is
it going to get all over the empire without anyone noticing?  It is also
fairly simple to restore the necessary programs from read only media.

As far as a RT conference goes, please announce it to the TML - I have a
friend with a GEnie account, and I'm sure he'll let me borrow it to attend,
since he also plays MT (but isn't on the TML).


Joe Block (jpb@umbio.med.miami.edu)
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
 deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
                                        Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759



------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3141
Subject: More stuff for the Wish List
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 91 11:35:19 PST
From: Richard Johnson <richard@agora.rain.COM>

I've been skimming quickly, so some of this might be old hat. 
Nevertheless, what I'd like to see in the new Traveller is:

1) The MT task resolution system
     I almost can't say this enough.  This was probably the single
     best overall RPG innovation since the Original Traveller came
     out in '76.  It beats *everything* TSR has ever done.

     It works, and works well for GM's and players alike.
     "Simple", "Normal", "Difficult", "Formidable" are terms
     that make sense intuitively.  I suppose you could design
     this into a differnt randomness system, but it would 
     mean re-training a lot of people.

2) Solo Adventuring
    In '77, when I started, I was the only RPGer around.  Trav's
    solo adventuring ability has always been limited, but is 
    vastly superior to anything else's (that I've found).  Please
    try to keep or improve this, or make solo adventures.

3) Levels of Gaming Progession
    Got yer attention huh?  :=)  Actually, I mean, make it possible
    for a beginning gamer, or a once-in-a-blue-moon gamer to get a
    small, single set that covers almost all (s)he needs.  Then, for
    us die-hards, a possibility exists for getting "meaty" updates.
    For instance how 'bout a "Cosmic Explorer" set that covers Scouts,
    and all the things they do in detail, and alludes to expanded
    commerce rules in the "Merchant Prince" set, and expanded combat
    rules in the...

    Sort of like what GDW started out with, only never really got to
    do.  If I can invest in a complete game system that is expandable
    in a truly meaningful way, I'm going to be more inclined to spend
    $$ on it.  Here's some thoughts for modules:

       Scouts 
	  includes World Builder's Handbook, ref material, 
	  and player material.  Maybe even a few minatures.
	  
       Merchants 
	   includes a reworked trade rules set.
	   
       Navy
       Army 
       Marines
	  (Look familiar?)
	  
       Ship Design
       Weapons Design
       Adventure Design
	   includes lots of ideas (lists?) of possibilities for
	   plots, twists, devices, NPC design, etc.

4)  Software
    I'd love to have most of the routine bookkeeping tasks available
    on an "approved" disk.  Make a lot of stuff nicer.
- -- 
Richard Johnson     richard@agora.rain.com
Sue Congress!

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3142
Date:     Sat, 23 Nov 91 16:06:42 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Revision Discussion from GEnie, Part 11

The following is the latest section of the discussion from GEnie.  Please
pay particular attention to the first message, from Dave Nilsen.  Also
note Loren Wiseman's plea for a summary of our previous discussions here.

I must add (he says editorially) that I don't much care for the tone of Mr. 
Nilsen's remarks, and if they rub the rest of yout the wrong way too, I would
appreciate it if you would all take a deep breath before instinctively flaming
him.

Rob Dean

- ---------------


 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 3
Message 422       Fri Nov 22, 1991
GDW.SUPPORT [Loren W.]       at 21:29 EST
 
 And now a word from Dave Nilsen:

In response to the firestorm of controversy, we would like to present
 the following outline of the thrust of the Traveller revision.
     -- First things first:  THIS IS NOT A WHOLESALE TRASHING OF
 EVERYTHING WE'VE EVER PUT OUT.  It is an evolutionary development
  that will be as true as possible to everything that has gone before.
     -- Why the Twilight System?  Because other extremely popular GDW
 games use the system, and this will allow more people to try other games
 in our line without having to learn an entirely new rules system.  Once
 you know the system, you'll be able to pick up any of our RPGs and
 get playing quickly.
     Also, and this is of real benefit to you players, it will allow
 us to put out more role-playing modules and variant settings along
 the lines of Cadillacs and Dinosaurs.  If we have to design a new
 system from scratch every time we want to create a new RPG setting,
 there's no way we could make the time to do very many.  However, if
 we can build on an established system that is already well-known
 among our players, it makes it possible for us to produce more fun stuff
 for you to play without having to mortgage the farm on long  development
times and costs.
     And, once you know the new system, playing Dark Con or Twilight
 with your friends, even if you don't do it more than once a year,
 will be as easy as falling off a bicycle.
     Certainly the New Traveller will make evolutionary modifications to
 the Twilight system, just as Dark Con did.  We will add things that
 will allow it to retain that unique Traveller flavor.
     -- Of course we will modify the way Traveller skills are quantified
 in order to make them work with the Twilight system, and of course we
 will provide conversion table so you can make your current
 character compatible with the new system.  What do you think we
 are, communists?  
     -- What "using the Twilight system" does not mean, is that we will
 be adopting that historical background (that was 2300, remember?),
 and adopting the M1A1 as the new Imperial MBT.  Get real.
     -- Vehicle designs will replicate as much as possible the general
 results of current vehicle design, as much as MT designs gave results
 demonstrably similar to earlier takes on Traveller.  However,
 the system will not require you to buy time on the MIT mainframe to
 generate a fleet of starships.
     -- Starship combat will be more fun and more detailed.
     -- One major thrust of the revision is to make the game accessible
 to first-time players, without requiring them to become disciples of
 someone who's been playing since 1977 in order to get the hang of
 it, which MT, unfortunately does.  
     -- Your subsector data will still be useful.  We are not leaving
 Imperial space.  We will be retaining varying levels of technology
 in different regions to allow current players to continue play in various
 socio-technological environments, according to their tastes.
     -- Aircraft carriers are not obsolete!  (I'm sorry, that slipped in here
from the 
 Troubled Waters blurb that Loren was writing today.)
     -- We will be returning to many of the themes of pre-Rebellion
 Traveller, so it will be kind of like a ten-year reunion.  (Except
 if you drink, you should drink responsibly.)
     Please allow us to assure you that we have been reading your
 comments and concerns, and that these have been very reassuring to
 us, as the things you have been talking about have reconfirmed to
 us that our assessment of what we want to do with the revision is
 right on target with our audience.  Many of the things you've
 discussed are things we are already planning, but it's nice to
 get the positive feedback so quickly.
     However, since we are still in the fairly early stages of
 nailing down specifics, this will be the last bean-spilling we'll
 be able to indulge in for a while.  We just need time to fully
 form our work.  But keep the comments coming, we do read them.

  This is Free Trader Beowulf . . . Mayday . . . . 

      Dave
 ------------
 ************
Topic 29        Mon Nov 18, 1991
DIGEST.GROUP [Staff]         at 00:43 EST
Sub: The WISH List                          

You know that the new Traveller is coming soon to a game store near you - but
is you had your way, what would you want to see in it?
 ************
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 29
Message 29        Fri Nov 22, 1991
GDW.SUPPORT [Loren W.]       at 00:09 EST
 
Rob,
     Thanks for the Internet stuff so far...be sure and ask if someone over
there can prepare a summary of their "What's wrong with MT" discussions
(conclusions, preferably). 

     SOmeone among the above messages asked for a GEnie Email address  to send
comments: GDW.SUPPORT is it. I read it every night, and forward the messages
(and postings) to the appropriate people at GDW.
     Loren
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 29
Message 30        Fri Nov 22, 1991
R.DEAN14 [Rob Dean]          at 07:51 EST
 
Loren,
     I'll look around and see if there has been a summary prepared.  Most of
the people asking for email address, I suspect, are hoping that you have
something Internet accessible, so that we can get to you from free work or
school accounts...but I'll see that the other gets posted.  Do you folks have
an IBM compatible in your office, or are you all Mac-susers? We could probably
arrange to get the entire archives sent to you if you were interested, as well
as the summaries.

Rob Dean
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 29
Message 32        Fri Nov 22, 1991
M.TURNAGE1                   at 19:15 EST
 
 
  Star Viking's miniatures _ground combat_?  Ok...Loren, not to second-guess
y'all, but does GDW really think that it'd sell?  It's been my experience that
SF miniatures rules have poor sales.  Aside from that (and my fervent hope it
was a new space combat system), I'm actually interested in it.  Then again, I
grew up reading Piper...

  Someone up above mentioned the way TSR revised AD&D.  I think they hit the
nail on the head...what's needed is a 3rd Edition Traveller. The revision of
some areas (vehicle design and starship combat especially) and a generally
reeditiing and rewriting of the rules...but otherwise a compatible rules
system.  After a lot of reflection, I can't see _any_ good reason for
switiching to a T2k/DC system.

  To get into analogies, we've seen Traveller grow like a tree...its started
out small, grown big and branched out.  There's definitely pruning that needs
to be done, but cutting the whole tree down to grow a new one...?

  I'm not so concerned about background changes...h**l, most of the adventures
I run now are still pre-Rebellion.  That was the setting most players were
used to and I was comfortable with.  There are some interesting things about
the rebellion era that I do use.  An eighty year leap, though, seems a bit
much.  I like the idea of the former Imperial territories in anarchy with the
Domain a lone, shining light, however.

Mark

 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 29
Message 33        Fri Nov 22, 1991
GDW.SUPPORT [Loren W.]       at 20:44 EST

Rob: As far as I know, I don't frequent a board that is connected to Internet
(I have a WWIV address, and I MAY (emphasize) MAY be able to touch base with
Fidonet). We have some IBM compatibles at work, and my home machine is a 386
clone. 
 Mike: AH, well...life is like that. Maybe we'll bump into each other again
sometime.
 Mark: Do we think Star VIking will sell...no, we always do games we think
will bomb :) Seriously, we think it will be worth the trouble. I think  you
may like it.

  I got a message from Dave Nilsen, but it'll have to wait til the next 
posting.
     Loren
 ------------
Category 11,  Topic 29
Message 34        Fri Nov 22, 1991
B.BORICH [LA TERRORIST]      at 22:44 EST
 
    Scott Kellog had a remark on a computer design system, built upon the info
in Robots, it's a good idea (I had something similar designed before Robots
came out, where the system was integrated).

    Concerning the Striker/MT talk, I too liked a lot of aspects of the
Striker system (It even gave me a use for spreadsheet programs, I used a small
screen size one to do the vehicle construction). One of the best things I like
about it was using cubic meters to measure volume, it was a lot simpler and
easier to identify with.

Loren,
    Just in case I'll mail you the stuff off by the end of this weekend. While
it takes awhile to go through it, it's not really quite that bad. I'd say a
fair amount of the problems have to do with the Errata, Vehicle Construction,
maneuver/agility, fission plants, and other problems with physics.
    TDR (Traveller Done Right) is the TML's attempt at fixing the problems and
creating a version of Traveller they want.
    By the way who should I address them too (Rob Dean might want to know
too).
    There is a list of what's the subject matter in each letter that should be
helpful too.
    I could usually go through about 10 bundles at day, extracting material.
Spending about 2-3 hours. And I have about 211 bundles.

Rob,
    In case Loren hasn't answered already, yes they can accept IBM disks.
 ------------

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3143
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 91 20:44 GMT
From: "J.A.F.O." <BSU646@vaxa.bangor.ac.uk>
Subject: A newcomers initial mewlings (general)

I have often wondered why it is that the August persons who produce the 
ongoing history for the Traveller (MT and 'neo trav to be') universe seem hell-
bent on driving DM's like me up the wall by not letting us know what is going
on at a reasonable rate?
  By which I mean that the outcome of the rebellion is as far asI am aware not
known to us grunts out in the field and so we must soldier on,eating up game
time in chunks and rapidly catching up to the latest TAS or Deneb newsbriefs!
 Now don't get me wrong I am no slavish rules-addict! I can make it up as I go
along, BUT it would be nice to be able to run a campaign that lasts game years
and not outrun the official history.
  A good example of what I would like is 2300 where the course of the Kafer war
is available to the DM at the outset and a campaign need not forge off into the
unknown UNLESS the DM (and players) want it to.  
 Maybe I am running too much traveller? Is 1 session of 5 hours in a week more
than the norm? I get through at least one jump a session, often more if the PC's
are in a hurry.  The problem is the fact jumps eat up time and if you run 'nail
mission' you do A LOT of jumps and a lot of them will not eat up much session
time as even in corridor not every gas giant holds adventures.


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3144
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 91 18:19 GMT
From: "J.A.F.O." <BSU646@vaxa.bangor.ac.uk>
Subject: The wish list

What would I like to see in the new traveller?

1) The old MT task system! one of the major turn-offs for me with t2000 and
trav2300 is the task system in those systems.  What is worng with the MT one?
as for 'new player accessiblity' MT is perfect for that (rules wise).

2) some decent organisation! Ok so MT is a great game but the 18 or so pages of
errata and all the layout sense of a lower order mammal? (IMHO) nooooo waaay!

basically the long night idea sounds cool, altho' the computer virus idea is a
bit of a turkey isn't it? (major IMHO there) COME ON! you CAN do better than
 that I've seen you! I realise I'm wandering off the point a bit but why not 
just do a decent re-release of MT in a decent format and produce a long night
 source book? that way we get a decently produced set of rules (1 set to rule 
them all.... one set to bind them....) and the 3 background periods to choose
 from i) old 'classic' trav ii) rebellion and iii) long night.  
One query.... if we get an 80 year leap in time line can someone tell me how
the rebellion ends...? please?


------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

